The "T-Rig" is Coming for Footys

Footy Class General Discussion (Footy)
41

Hi Dick,

Footies, with unlimited sail area invariably have some part of the jib (or leading edge of their uni-rig or swing rig) overhanging the bow. Some diagonally placed boats may not if they have very tall rigs, but many have, and traditional jib and main combos almost always overhang. I suppose that a boat that is placed in the box to take advantage of the bowsprit slot could be rigged in the manner that you are suggesting, sheeting from the bowsprit, but I would be concerned about fouling one of the lines with the bowsprit if the jib/spinnaker should drop in a lull.

Similarly, on a diagonal boat one or both of the lines could get caught under the bow.

Also, if one was to have a forestay (which you probably wouldn’t use on a Footy anyway) it might interfere with the jib/spinnaker or have the thing get tangled if the wind backs.

I don’t think you would want the tack and clue sheets loosening progressively as you let the sails out. You would want the system to kick in when close to all the way out. For the system to deploy when the setting is for a broad reach to a run some sort of spring action trigger would be required. This would have to work both to let out the sheets and to trim them back in, and do it quickly for mark rounding.

In short, the engineering involved would be quite complicated and probably add significant weight. The boats that work best are the ones where everything is simplest and any systems employed work consistently. I don’t think that this can be done with the winch servo alone and perform reliably, but I’d follow with interest if someone were to tackle the nuts and bolts of making something like this work.

But I do agree that the RG65 platform affords more bow to work with and is more forgiving of internal weight than the Footy, so if one were to try and develop this system the RG is a better candidate.

42

Dick,

What better way to enjoy a snow day than tinkering with these boats? With regard to your question about the force on the tack line, consider that when close hauled, the club-to-deck attachment has about the same force as the backstay (a lot more than the sheet) to keep the jib luff from sagging. The winch will need to develop that much force to return to close-hauled. Therefore a big heavy winch, and probably a heavier battery.

Meanwhile I am playing with the keel-forward hull, balanced on a pencil between 2 tables, and hitting it with a hair dryer to optimize the anti-submarining characteristics. If this can be done, I will still need to get rid of a severe lee helm by adding a small mizzensail to a second mast on the transom. So far, I have found that the 9 inch bowsprit is not nearly enough to have the desired effect.

43

Unfortunatly I will not be able to sail in the Nationals. The company that is tooling my MAAWD (Multi Axis Accelerated Wing Design) Rig has to make one more change on my design and I fear it may not be back by the Nats!!!

44

Information on the “T-Rig” is now available on the www.tanglewoodmyc.com site. Click on the “Footy” header and select the bottom “T-Rig” link. One of the skippers at the TWMYC FFF4.4 regatta on February 20th asked if I would build one for him and so I needed to document if for him. Thus, it was decided to release the information sooner. It will make you wonder why you didn’t think of it yourself. It is simple, so please don’t laugh at it. It will be interesting to see if others use them at the Nationals coming soon.

45

Our final design is based on a NACA 0019 foil. The calculations show 17% more lift than a conventional sail of the same size. And as you know…more lift is more thrust for us sailboat guys!!!

46

An the Answer is??? Hey Marc, How about Adjustable Balanced Rig?

47

Hi Frank,

Requiring permission from prospective builders of your rig design is not in line with the cooperative spirit that is the norm in Footydom. I can see requiring permission from an individual that wants to produce your rigs commercially, in which case you would be due a royalty as well. But we are still trying to build this class up from the ground and siting copyrights is a sure way to turn people off. It has sure done that for me. But I will stick to the deal. Post the T-Rig on this thread for all to see and I will provide more details of my building system.

48

I will make a wild guess that the T-Rig is similar to the sliding rig that Andy Trewin used on his catamaran.

49

The “T-Rig” is free to use by any individual for personal use, they just have to request it per previous post. Long term, a Z-Wire rig properly tuned will give same performance, so I don’t see this slowing development. I am not aware of Andy’s setup, but would be suprised if it had all the same features & benefits which are listed on the info supplied. I have been working on various ideas for over a year. It would be nice to have Andy comment…

50

Hi Frank - I would tend to agree with Niel - and while the “proposed” legal disclaimer might shield your idea until the Nationals, I would guess that photos and discussions will follow that will be outside your “copyright” - and will be available to many. I liken the “no reproduction” note to be similar to what the AC Committee tried to do with photos from the Cup series a generation or so back.

A “copyright” does not protect the use/reproduction of your idea - only a registered patent will do that for you if you have concerns of someone making a million of these to sell.

In fact, for everyone’s knowledge (at least here in the U.S. and counties with reciprocal agreements:

WHAT DOES A COPYRIGHT PROTECT?

Copyright protects “original works of authorship” that are “fixed” in a tangible form of expression. Examples of works in a “fixed” form are: a story written down on paper, a computer program saved on a disk, or a song recorded on tape. Copyrightable works include the following categories: [ol]
[li]literary works; [/li][li]musical works, including any accompanying words [/li][li]dramatic works, including any accompanying music [/li][li]pantomimes and choreographic works [/li][li]pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works [/li][li]motion pictures and other audiovisual works [/li][li]sound recordings [/li][li]architectural works[/li][/ol]These categories should be viewed broadly. For example, computer programs and most “compilations” may be registered as “literary works”; maps and architectural plans may be registered as “pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works.”

What is NOT Protected by Copyright?
Several categories of material are generally not eligible for federal copyright protection. These include among others:

[ul]
[li]Works that have not been fixed in a tangible form of expression (for example, choreographic works that have not been notated or recorded, or improvisational speeches or performances that have not been written or recorded)[/li][li]Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents[/li][li]Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles, discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a description, explanation, or illustration[/li][li]Works consisting entirely of information that is common property and containing no original authorship (for example: standard calendars, height and weight charts, tape measures and rulers, and lists or tables taken from public documents or other common sources)[/li][/ul]Perhaps you may want to reconsider your required signature of terms and conditions? Only a suggestion of course.

51

I have requests from all over the world and am happy with the response. I will be happier if skippers adapt it and sail well, but that usually requires a skilled skipper also.

52

I personnaly have no problem with your copyright. But I imagine like all good things someone will copy it. Just remember Imitation is the greatest form of flattery(sp). My son had a similar idea a couple years ago but couldnt keep the sail from twisting over to the side when the wind was strong. ( I know you never saw his so you didnt copy from him.)
You seem to have sovled that problem. Great job. I am sure though that like all good things someone will change or add to it or improve upon it. I just wish someone woud invent me some magic thumbs. I could really use them LOL

53

Compare this with what Brett did when he published his rig … or Angus when he published his hull designs … or Andrew with his half cocked creations … or Claudio … or Flavio … or darn near anybody else on this forum … if your restrictions aren’t tongue and cheek I’ll be damned …

54

This is a great update on an existing design.

Nice job Frank!!!

55

And I thought the AC teams were being petty and stupid. It’s toy boat. It’s meant to be a game. It’s meant to be fun. Once a photo not taken by Fasftfrank appearson the forum this curious idea of’ copyright’ is blown out of the water. Or do Tanglewood propose confiscating all non official cameras att their events?

Russell

56

Whether the granting of permission to reproduce the “T” rig is “tongue and cheek” or not, it implies that that permission can be withheld. I have no idea why Frank wants to keep track of who asks permission to build one of his rigs except to build some kind of personal Footy database. If thats what he is after the simplest way is to become the next registrar/class secretary.

57

I wrote to Frank and obtained a copy,interesting.

58

I unfortunationly will not be at the NCR due to necessary trip back to Michigan. Now in Oak Ridge. Look fwd to seeing results.

Maybe Sheboygan Footy Fest is next regatta…

59

frank

shoot me your snail mail and I’ll get the lead out to you…since you wont be at NCR…

60

So Frank, after all this hullaballoo about showing us all what the revolutionary “T” rig can do in NCR competition it won’t be at the starting line with its promoter at the helm. I understand that duty calls but its a bit like crying wolf.