ok dick
i dont think we can let the patients run the asylum. but some how we have to fix this. and i dont think this is the thread to discuss this. so this will be be last post here . if I have any more bright ideas:-( i will post them in the pub.
otherwise can anybody tell me how to run the bluenose on 2 channels. those front jibs . dont have a club on them?
cougar
jay dee
i think i might be able to help you with the water coming into the hull. the bluenose had( holes) where water could be flow. now you probably have this. and the water is coming down the hatches. have you ever tought of putting a temp hatch over all your opening. even deck tape would help in keeping water out. On my first IOM all i ever used was deck tape to close the hatch. all you realy need to get to are the batteries and the switch for the radio. that might help with the water problem. well guys do any of you have a better answer for this problem. i am listening. and i bet jay dee is too
cougar
This is a magnificant boat, especially the pictures under sail.
Great work
Doug Hale
Silk was only used for spinnakers as far as I have been able to determine. There was a proprietary product, very popular, called “Union Silk,” which appears to have been a silk/cotton blend. Extinct today, and evidently did not hold up well over time, because we have no significant samples to analyze.
The closest you can come to scale sail material is long staple down cambric. “Long staple” refers to the kind of cotton that is used. Also known as “Egyptian Cotton” or “Sea Island” cotton. The latter has real snob appeal and is omigod expensive.
The “down” in “down cambric” is goose down or eiderdown, that is, feathers. The cloth is very tightly woven to keep the feathers from poking out. It is used by quilters in down quilts and down pillows, and is much more available today than it was when I first started looking for natural fabrics for sails in 1997. You want to find the tightest weave you can, 200 plus threads per inch minimum.
The big problem that you face is the ability of the cloth to hold a seam under the kind of stress that a sail encounters. This seems to be pure voodoo, in that I have not been able to find out what makes one brand hold and another fail. Master sailmaker and Yachting Monthly Cup winner Bill Bithell told me he just tested brands until he found one that worked. Luckily, today we have a “cheat” available in the form of the heat-setting adhesive tape sold by the Hang-Em-High kite material supplier. You can glue the hem to take the load, and then (assuming you are attempting to duplicate a vintage set of sails) sew the hems for looks only.
Once you have a set of cotton sails you must “set” them, that is, stretch them into aerodynamic shape. This is done by loosening the luff attachment (usually lacing) and sailing the boat on a foggy/drizzly day, gradually tightening the luff until set. (You can tell this technique was developed by a Brit :-)). In ultra-dry New Mexico I have achieved the same result with a spray bottle of water. Once set you never wash/iron/clean/fool with the sails ever again.
Cotton sails are an unholy pain, but nothing, absolutely nothing, looks as “natural” on the water as they do 
Cheers,
Earl
Forgot to mention, if you are interested in cotton for sails, a quilter show/convention is the place to go for down cambric you won’t find anywhere else.
If you are going to use silk I would definitely recommend glued hems. Is there a place where the rest of us could obtain this fabric? I’d love to try it on Yankee III.
Cheers,
Earl
Haven’t tried that, what Hang-Em-High sells is 3M 9460, very tough stuff.
Cheers,
Earl
It’s a sheet adhesive with a paper backing. You iron it on, then peel the paper off, position the other piece of cloth, and iron it down. Very strong, survives a bout in the washing machine. Has some industrial use or other, Hang-Em-High slits their own reels to 1/4 inch width.
Cheers,
Earl
O.K. I don’t have a schooner but would love to build one. A couple of questions. How do you transport it to the pond? Surely you don’t de-mast with all that rigging? I looked for plans on the internet and struck out. I’m looking for a similar look to the Bluenose but I would rather have something that hasn’t been done that often (not that we’re tripping over model Bluenoses or anything). And a last question for now.How do you sheet the jibs (if that’s what they are called) to allow both tacks?
Thanks
Don
Vancouver Island
J.D.
When cost is not an issue. Check out these building kits.
http://www.modelsailingships.com/
http://www.modelsailingships.com/update/images/bg.S.fr.stbd.2.jpg
http://www.modelsailingships.com/update/images/bg.S.3.jpg
Full index:
http://www.modelsailingships.com/update/index.html
All I can say is…WOW.
Tom
Seawind #80
JD you might know, has anyone ever built a scale R/C square rigged ship? Always fancied a model of a 18th century frigate…
Luff 'em & leave 'em.
Should have clicked on the links! Wow thats cool, I’m an avid reader of the Patrick O’Brian novels (should I be admitting this at my age?!). Shame about the Fibreglass hulls, If I ever build one I would build it like the real thing,true scale modeling, then just have a bolt on false keel if it needs one. Anyway, not gonna happen for a very long time if ever…
Luff 'em & leave 'em.
O.K. I want to build a schooner. Where can I get plans, Free or otherwise (preferably Internet)? If I am not building a replica of a particular ship is there any restrictions on what hull shape I can use as a schooner. I have the plans for a Sixty hull that Dick Lemke made available for us (Thanks Dick). Would that be a usable plan for a semi-scale schooner? I would probably reduce the size so the LWL was about 1 meter so as to be more competative with the guys I sail with and to make it easier to transport.
Thanks
Don
Vancouver Island
Another thought. How fast do schooners sail compared with sloops of similar size? Also how fast are full keels compared to fin keels? My thought is if I want to keep up to my buddies who are saiing 1 meters what length full keel schooner would I need. This is not official racing, just pond puttering and as long as the speed is reasonably close our lack of sailing skill evens out the competition.
Thanks
Don
Vancouver Island
Don
I am working at converting a US1M over to a schooner very simular to the Mari Chaiv (www.marichaiv.com)will be using the hull fin and keel from the US1M "Mistral " for the bases of the boat. Spoke to a friend that does design sailboats and they suggested that the bulb may have to be increased in wieght to about 8 lbs due to the sail area. They are working this out and will advise me once they are done.
Jeff
Alberta
Jeff,
Given the lower CE of the schooner rig compared to the sloop rig, I would suspect that the standard keel mass would be more than adequate. In fact, I would suspect that you might be able to reduce mass a bit.
Keep in mind that you want your boat to float on the designed waterline. So if you add weight to the bulb, plus the added weight of the second rig, you may find that she sits quite low in the water which is probably not great for speed. If I were in your shoes, I would keep the total boat weight the same as the Mistral was designed for. Given the second rig, you may find that means you need to decrease the bulb mass a very small amount. But more than likely the standard bulb mass is close enough not to mess with…
- Will
Will Gorgen
I am new to this sailing stuff and still discovering these forums. Since we are talking about these ships already this is a good chance to show you one that is now floating.
I wanted scale but I also wanted a ship I could sail…hence this model…yes it is glass but the designer spent a lot of time researching each of the 3 ships he sells. And…this one IS a pleasure to sail and sails upwind very well!
It is a just completed (the very first kit that I know of that has been put together and tested by a customer…me)1/24 scale RC model of a War of 1812 American Privateer. I am going to post a link to the build-up thread I did at RCuniverse as it is too labor intensive to rebuild here. Be patient with the upload as it contains lots of pics. There are several other threads with pics about it at that forum. Here are some of the basics.
The kit was purchased from: http://www.modelsailingships.com at a price of $2100.00 plus the shipping etc… Here is some info from the above site about this ship:
<font color=“blue”>The Prince de Neufch?tel
Adam and Noah Brown’s Privateer Schooner
Built at New York in 1813 this ship was one of the fastest and most successful Amercian ships of the War of 1812 (6 prizes in 6 days in the English Channel (1814); chased 17 times by men-of-war that summer, but outran them every time). A large schooner (110’ 8", 33.7m length on deck), she was typical in body plan of the American privateers. Very highly thought of by her country (she changed owners in 1814 for $21,000) as well as her enemies. When finally taken, the British copied her.
Our ship is armed with 16 18lb carronades and two 6lb cannon, has three square sails, a driver (supplied as a double reefed version as well) a topmast gaff sail, a fore gaff sail, and three jibs. She has two sail servos (one, a sail winch, for the fore and aft sails, one for the square) and one rudder servo.
Length on deck is 55.3" (1.4m)
Hull weight is 25 lbs (11.4 kgs), Sailing weight is 47 lbs (21.4 kgs)
Ballast keel weighs 22 lbs (10.0 kgs)
Ready for sailing she measures (extreme) 97" long, 63" high and 33" wide (2.23m x 1.6m x .33m). She packs into just one box, 64" x 17" x 13.5" high (1.63m x .43m x .34m high)
The price for this vessel is $7,000.00 fully assembled, or $2,100.00 as a complete kit.</font id=“blue”>
Here are some pics and the link to the build-up thread.
Download Attachment: [ Prince in a storm 002crop.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/Hoghappy/2004624121457_Prince in a storm 002crop.jpg)
74.49?KB
Ok I am having problems figuring out what size files will upload [:-banghead] and I don’t have time right now to resize for every different websites allowances…so just go to the link.
Youz guyz want to come out and play?
Always choose the lesser of the two weevils!
(Edited to add a working link…thought that might help…and to add a link to a another thread about it.)
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Prince_gets_storm_tested!_(pics)/m_1883568/tm.htm
One thing guys…how about a seperate Forum vs thread for this? You really have to look to find this topic!
Always choose the lesser of the two weevils!
Guz…if we are talking “scale” are we not also looking for scale speed? I know that is impossible due to the wind not being in “scale” but we can not control that…we can control drag…without it being noticable on the surface. I am all for racing as long as the ships are on a level playing field and would really love to see them in scale with each other…but I want to keep the “scale” in the sailing performance as well.
As far as the discussion on keel mass for schooners…look at the ship I just built. The thing is really heavy…25lbs of ship plus another 22 lbs below the keel to get her to the waterline.
Someone asked how she sails…I have nothing to compare with…no one to play with and this was my first sailing vessel. She does not need much wind but she needs some to come about. She is much harder to sail with the squares than just the fore/aft sails.
She is the best of both worlds though…a square sailer brigatine and fore/aft schooner.
Always choose the lesser of the two weevils!
Hog (should I call you Hog or is it mister Happy?),
“Scale” means a lot of things to a lot of people. Just like “One Design” means a lot of different things.
For example, the J class is pretty much a scale class. but there are allowances in the class rules so that the designs can deviate from a pure scale to allow for racing.
The same is true for your boat, I am sure. At some point you say “well, that is scale enough”. You may include scale deck fittings or not, but I’m guessing you do not have a scale interior… So you draw the line somewhere.
But the last thing you want to trouble yourself with is adding some sort of non scale drag inducing features just to achieve a scaled speed. That seems very silly.
so you have to ask yourself what you are trying to achieve. If your intent is to have a lot of fun building the model then let the speed be what it will be. If you want to race against other scaled boats, then you might do things somewhat differently the way the J class has. If you want to win a “boat show” or “parade of boats” type contest (based on asthetics) then you would do something else.
I suggest if you guys really want to go “scale” then add some of these air cannons to your boat and try to sink each other!!!
http://www.modelwarshipcombat.com/
http://www.swampworks.com/Catalog-BB%20systems.html
- Will
Will Gorgen
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by JayDee
Don,
A full keel schooner(scale)will sail ok, but not as well as the SAME boat with a fin keel added.<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>
How would you attach the fin keel? Would you put a slot in the bottom of the full keel?
Thanks
Don
Vancouver Island