420 sailor. Why not take up model 6Ms, which are raced as a class in the UK? See the MYA website.
Metre boats have the problem of being a bit on the non modern side. Slow, small, bu heavy. No fleets outside UK.
12ms turn out about 50 - 60 lbs at OAL of 6 - 7 ft, which is a bit unwieldy. They rate nicely at the very heavy end of the A class rule, but most boats to this rule would be 25 - 35 lbs at the same length.
Would suggest make decisions about how heavy, how long, how wind resitsant and how fast. Then look to see if there is an existing set up to link up to.
What about something based on the 5.5 - and of course you can change the scale factor to suit.
Furthermore, there’s no reaso why you can’t breathe on some of the constants to give the brutes a bit more get up and go.
I guess I’d better weigh in on this since I made the suggestion.
For Andrew, I would welcome lines related to modern sport or VOR “style” boats. Building to a 50 inch size is kind of past for me, since the Marblehead class is already there, and the F-48 trimaran is waiting for warm weather to get me back to it. (That’s 48 inches). This is why I was eyeing up the bigger size boats. I have to admit, I may back down a bit in size since it would be nice to carry in the bed of my short-box pickup. 8 feet long (96 inches) would work - but tailgate would have to be down. (hhhhm - a thought - name it “Tailgater” ?)
The concept discussed of putting together a great handicap class so we could continue to complain about rating numbers and unfair ratings would be able to continue just like the big boats. :D;) Seriously, if there is a way to rate from say 50 inches on up - I would probably eye the 1/10 scale size for my own size just because, and no other reason, than a few here seem to like that size too. ISAF has a handicap/Portsmouth system for racing different size/makes of boats. AMYA like most national authorities, has a direct tie with ISAF through US Sailing. Perhaps ISAF would allow AMYA to work with whatever formula rules exist to develop something similar for our smaller scale boats? They won’t share with individuals, as once you know the method, design could take hold of the system and only winning boats would emerge built to the rule. Remember the old IOR, and some of the “Tonner” designs that were built to a “rule” but suffer from “Eye-Candy” appeal. (Hey - another boat name possibility !)
So for purposes to gauge interest, here is a midwestern guy willing to commit to something in the 1/10 scale range. I probably would for-go any canting keel, and simply stay with a boat that has multi-channel and servo controls for main sheet, jib sheet, down/back haul and perhaps inhaul/outhaul. Not sure I would fool with a traveller. Would try to get a basic boat on the water in reasonable amount of time and deal with all the high-tech go-fast technology at later date or in hull number 2
The A Class being resurrected makes some sense, but I think once we decide a size limit (as opposed to specific LOA size) it would make sense to hammer out a set of rules BEFORE we get any designs on the water - with one exception - Heaven Can Wait’s “WILDCARD” get’s grandfathered in. We don’t write the rules to his boat, but he gets to race with handicap or straight up without any “bashing” or name-calling. If all “new” boats to whatever rules are built, and his spinnaker equipped boat runs away - so be it. His is the only boat I know of at moment in this idea range and it should be the basis on which we set the class into motion.
That said - I do like the idea of handicapping (with it’s faults) just so a lot more people can play at the same time - basically making whatever rules inclusionary - not “exclusionary”.
Millrtme - I have a response pending. Had a couple of meetings today but will try to get it off to you yet this afternoon. Home for lunch at moment.
EDIT - I have access to a wide format scanner/copier/printer. It can produce 3 foot (36 inch wide) x “X” FEET long prints. For cost of supplies and postage, I would consider providing line enlargements to whatever ratio is desired, once size is aagreed upon.
Back to the original thread topic. Just talked to the laser cutter and I should have my stations back by the end of next week so Hopefully in a weeka dn a half or so I can post pictures to show you guys what I’m working with here. Would love to post my file, but again I belive it would be infringing on my word that i gave the designer.
As for the other comments, for boats this big, I think a handicapping system is almost required becuase all the different boats it would be nearly impossible to create a class by size. Personally I think the boats should be built to a certain scale, then a rating system could be put in place so as long as a 62" boat and a 96" boat are exactly scaled from their larger counterpart (mast, keel, rudder) then they should be able to be linked via a handicapping system. Once you start increasing sail area from the scaled size thats where issues might arise. Again just my $.02.
I agree…aside from the larger rudder and keel issues,I would want the scale model to “scale down” from her larger sister and not have too great of modifications to her rig and such. My thoughts of keeping with the spirit of scale “real” boat sailing. my $.02+$.o1/2
the frenchies have allready got the 1/10 thing going it would seam.
and in my favorite style of boat too.
nigel
and another…ya man!
Too bad they are so small !!! 
Nigel - any kind of a website you can point me (us) to and did any of them happen to post some dimensions or lines?
I could be convinced to drop down to this size, I suppose.
here’s one.
http://voilemodele.fr.st/
i’ll try to find the french forum, that had the thread, with some of those links.
it seams they have a class for 1/10th, and 1/18th.
i managed to get pdf of the 1/10 rules. it’s in french, and i want to translate, then post it here.
in fact, i’m gonna do that now.
(be back soon)
REGLES DE JAUGE DES OPEN 60 MONOCOQUES
ECHELLE 1/10 ème.
1 GENERALITES 4 GREEMENTS
2 COQUES 5 VOILES
3 APPENDICES 6 MARQUES D’IDENTIFICATION
7 RADIO-COMMANDE
1 GENERALITES
Les bateaux seront des semi-maquettes issues de modèles réels ou non. Les décorations personnelles sont acceptées.
Un minimum d’accastillage sera exigé.
Cette jauge n’est pas restrictive et pourra évoluer en fonction de l’avancée technologique des bateaux grandeur réelle.
Toute personne voulant participer à ces régates amicales sera tenu de respecter cette jauge. Le règlement des régates de voilier grandeur sera appliqué.
Le fair-play et la courtoisie seront considérées comme primordiales par le jury.
2 COQUE
2.a) La coque doit être de type monocoque, d’une longueur de 1,828 m. (6 pieds) au Maximum. Mesure prise de la verticale de la proue au tableau arrière ou à la jupe.
2.b) Largeur de la coque : libre.
Dérive(s)
2.c) Hauteur maximum avec le lest : 750 mm, mesure prise sous la coque, au centre de la dérive.
2.d) La dérive supportant le lest pourra être fixe ou pivotante.
2.e) Nombre de dérives avec ou sans lest : libre
Lest :
2.f) Poids et forme libres, avec un matériau de densité inférieure ou égale au plomb.
2.g) Lest mobile à l’intérieur de la coque :libre.
Ballasts :
2.h) Lests liquides (ballast) : autorisés. Uniquement avec de l’eau en provenance de la zone de navigation.
Safran(s)
2.i) Nombre maximum : deux.
2.j) Surface et formes : libres
Matériaux coque :
2.k) Matériaux libres.
3 APPENDICES
3.a) +10% (180mm) de la longueur de la coque répartis sur l’avant ou l’arrière , soit tout sur l’avant, où tout sur l’arrière.
Matériaux appendices :
3.b) Matériaux libres.
4 GREEMENTS
Mat(s)
4.a) Nombre de mats : libre.
4.b) Hauteur maximum du grand mat :
2,70 mètres. Hauteur prise du dessus du pont au sommet du mat.
4.c) Fixes ou tournants.
4.d) Inclinables ou pas
4.e) Mâts ailes ou pas.
4.f) Surface libre
4.g) Réglage du pied de mat : autorisé.
Bôme :
4.h) Longueur libre, dans la limite de la rubrique Appendices.
Tangons latéraux : oui
4.i) Dépassement maxi latéral de la coque : 250mm de chaque
bord.
Matériaux gréements :
4.j) Matériaux libres.
5 VOILES
5.a) Les voiles peuvent être souples ou rigides.
5.b) Le nombre de voiles : libre
5.c) Surface : libre
5.d) Matériau des voiles : libre.
6 MARQUE D’IDENTIFICATION
6.a) Le numéro de course du bateau doit avoir une hauteur minimum de 70 mm sur les voiles, en noir de préférence.
6.b) Un logo identifiant le propriétaire du bateau ou du Club auquel il appartient est autorisé.
7 RADIO COMMANDE
7.a) Le nombre de fonctions radio commandées est libre., Toutefois, ces fonctions devront être regroupées sur un seul émetteur et commandée par une seule personne par bateau.
En vigueur au 1er mars 2003
Modifications : Ajout chapitre 7 en mars 2004.
THE DIRECT BABLEFISH TRANSLATION
RULES OF GAUGE OF OPEN THE 60 MONOSHELLS SCALE 1/10 2ND. 1 GENERAL INFORMATION 4 GREEMENTS 2 HULLS 5 VEILS 3 APPENDICES 6 MARKS Of IDENTIFICATION 7 RADIOCONTROLS 1 GENERAL INFORMATION the boats will be semi-models resulting from real models or not. Personal decorations are accepted. A minimum of upperworks will be required. This gauge is not restrictive and will be able to evolve/move according to the technological projection of the boats real size. Any person wanting to take part in these friendly regattas will be held to respect this gauge. The payment of the regattas of sailing ship size will be applied. The fair play and the courtesy will be regarded as paramount by the jury. 2 HULL 2.a) the hull must be of monoshell type, a 1,828 m length. (6 feet) to the Maximum. Measure taken vertical of the prow in the back table or the skirt. 2.b) Width of the hull: free. Drift 2.c) maximum Height with the ballast: 750 mm, measure taken under the hull, in the center of the drift. 2.d) the drift supporting the ballast could be fixed or swivelling. 2.e) a Number of drifts with or without ballast: free Ballast: 2.f) Weights and form free, with a material of lower density or equalizes with lead. 2.g) mobile Ballast inside the hull:libre. Ballasts: 2.h) liquid Ballasts (ballast): authorized. Only with water coming from the zone of navigation. Saffron 2.i) Numbers maximum: two. 2.j) Surface and forms: free Materials hull: 2.k) free Materials. 3 APPENDICES 3.a) 10% (180mm) of the length of the hull distributed on before or the back, is all on the front one, where all on the back. Materials appendices: 3.b) free Materials. 4 GREEMENTS Chechmate 4.a) a Number of chechmates: free. 4.b) maximum Height of the great chechmate: 2,70 meters. Height taken of the top of the bridge at the top of the chechmate. 4.c) Fixed or revolving. 4.d) Tilting or not 4.e) Masts wings or not. 4.f) free Face 4.g) Adjustment of the foot of chechmate: authorized. Bôme: 4.h) free Length, within the limit of the heading Appendices. Side booms: yes 4.i) side maximum Going beyond of the hull: 250mm of each edge. Materials gréements: 4.j) free Materials. 5 VEILS 5.a) the veils can be flexible or rigid. 5.b) the number of veils: free 5.c) Surface: free 5.d) Material of the veils: free. 6 MARK Of IDENTIFICATION 6.a) the number of race of the boat must have a height minimum of 70 mm on the veils, in black preferably. 6.b) a logo identifying the owner of the boat or the Club to which it belongs is authorized. 7 RADIO ORDER 7.a) the number of ordered radio functions is free, However, these functions will have to be gathered on only one transmitter and ordered by only one person per boat. Into force at March 1 2003 Modifications: Addition chapter 7 in March 2004.
i have a stations pic of one of the open 60 hulls from the thread.
it’s to big to post, but i can mail it to anyone who wants it.
my french is horrible, but from what was said, i made out that the stations are put at 3,3/4" apart.
i’m itch’n to cut them out and plank them.
WOW!
Thank you all for the links and photo’s!! This further supports why I will be investing heavy in miniature Harken development. The largest in length model I have built was KZ-1 a 3/4"=1’ carbon/kevlar model of the 1988 america’s cup challenger(michael faye). Model was around 9’ long. Photo will be on our new web site.
Nigel - if you can post links where lines were, I can grab and perhaps scan on our big scanner at work. It will handle 3 feet wide x ??? long drawings - and if scanned they could be posted on the net for free downloads to encourage builds.
Wis still hangs out here (lurks) and my bet is he would host the location of the lines. If not, that would be a Photobucket or similar location.
PM me for my home address if there is no link. Perhaps together we can make them available in electronic format.
here they are:
http://navi.modelisme.com/
go to “voile r/c”, scroll down look at “Portwind” and others.
and the forum:
http://www.minicoque.com/
go to “plans”, then “plan de open 60”, “plan open 60”, “plan 60 pieds open”, “VENDS VOILIER TYPE OPEN 60”
nigel
Thank you Dick with respect to your kind words regarding “Wildcard”, I’m wrapped that there are others like me out there with similar ideals as to how a Model R/C Boat should look like.
One of the instant advantages of creating a uniform 1 : 10 Scaled Class is the potential to Grandfather in or cater for a much greater variety of boats and moreso designs.
I have always had a vision of producing a number a different boats all based on the 1:10 scale as the interchange of parts is made so much easier due to the common scale.
“Wildcard” being a scaled 40 footer would certainly not look out of place with like scaled Yachts especially with a range of LOA’s dependant solely on what your budget will permit.
I can see an entry level scaled 7 (23") or 8metre (26") being competitive with even the biggest Scaled R/C monster if a general consensus is granted as to strict Rules / Guidelines and a workable Handicap system.
There is also the prospect of Longer distance or Passage Races and credit awarded to the amount of detail has gone into the scaled original or reproduction.
I would also like to see the Class establish its own genres to cater for namely Racers, Racer / Cruiser’s and Cruising boats, we shouldn’t just limit entries to just the flat out Race boats.
In short at 1:10 scale these boats are big enough to really appreciate the detail that should go into these boats, however depending on your available funds, you have a much greater scope in which to build a boat that can compete in what should be a fantastic class.
In closing it may be worth while to post a 1:10 Scaled Class thread all of it’s own, so we can better help Millrtme with his TP52.
Cheers, HcW…
It’s a little late now that I have had the shadows laser cut and they are currently enroute to me, but should I have just made the boat 1:10th. To me, coming from USOM 52" LOA and 14.75" wide is a HUGE boat. I thought at the time it was the perfect size, now I’m thinking that 1:10th would have been cooler. OH well, so now I know my next project after the one I have barely even started yet. HahahA
Well there is good news. In order to make building two boats a little easier to swallow, I have overcome my insatiable appetite for carbon fiber. The hulls will still most likely be the black stuff (esp. the 1:10 boat), but I was planning on using the uber-expensive walicki skalpel carbon tear drop mast, which as such was uber-expensive both for the product itself and the shipping from Hamburg. I will be going with a standard aluminum mast at about 1:10 of the cost, seems fitting, now I can afford two masts for less than I was planning on spending on mold materials. Sadly, I am still disappointed, i was all ready to order the carbon mast, but it just isn’t feasible when the thought of building two boats comes over me.
for the superstuctures, you could use other black reinforcements that are cheap, such as black e-glass, or basalt fiber.
Nigel, that isn’t soo much a cost factor, while it is more expensive than other options, it doesn’t have to be shipped from Germany in a container that measures nearly 90" long. If they were produced or sold in the US it would def. be a viable option.