The "Peacemaker-Project"

Other The Local Pub
1

Hi! -
Don’t worry, this won’t be a philosophic topic this time.-
This is for the actual FUTURE of this forum! -

It’s an attempt, to find out about all planned future boatprojects from all members in this forum! -
Not the stuff, any of you just ‘think of’, but the boats you actually want to build next.-

And I have a certain reason, why I start this topic:
I’m in doubt myself, which boat I want to build now. -
In any case, my next model will be christened “PEACEMAKER” - and I will be documenting each building step on the net.-

  1. There is this idea of a 1:10 scale model of a modern 16m Cruising Catamaran. - And when I say scale, I really mean scale for this model! - The goal for this boat should be, to get all necessary calculations for the 1:1 yacht - financially and technically - together. -
    I would like to use this model for exhibitions on boatshows - to present my ideas to european catamaran boatyards - and maybe to find somebody, who actually wants to have this boat at full size. - I wouldn’t want to build the real boat by myself - it’s simply a too big project and there is no boatyard at Austria, which has the capacity to build one. -
    But the model would be interesting and I could learn a lot by building it.-

  2. A wooden model of a 3-masted chinese junk! - Yes, that’s true - I want to build a MONOHULL! -
    A quite exotic, but on the other hand very traditional ship. Also at a scale of 1:10, but 2 meters long! -
    Means, the fullscale yacht would be 20 meters long. - As this ship can technically be seen as a threemasted schooner, the center of effort of the sails would be very low - and I would only need one sailwinch. -
    I found some pictures of a beautiful sailing junk in a german model-ship site, which inspired me - if you are interested in this pictures, I could publish them here. -
    My goal is, to make the exterior appearance of this boat look very oldfashioned, but with modern lines underwater. - Red sails, with real bamboo sailbattens -…-
    The special feature of this ship would be inboard ballast and kickup twin-centerboards made of steel plates, to provide very shallow draft. - Ships like this are actually still in use in northern china, where they have mostly shallow waters and sandy beaches. and it will have an inboard engine as well. -

3)A completely new designed 60 inch trimaran, very different to my last F60 ‘Daydreamer’. -
It would be a scale model also, but scale is 1:6 in relation to a 30ft. Daysailer-Trimaran. -
My dream would be, to build such a boat full size for myself -…-
This model - if I build it - would have three downcurved wavepiecing bows and curved X-shaped crossbars. -
The paintings of the 60ft. Trimaran “Sergio Tacchini” - designed by Nigel Irens - would be the example for it.
No T-foils and no endplate on the rudder, but maybe curved centerboards on the floats!-
The goal would be a boat below 5.0kg - but 4.0-4.2 kg would be perfect. Mast height again 100" and 1.5m2 sailarea - as they work perfectly on my ‘F60 Daydreamer’ (which got 5.5kg). -

As I prefer models, which most other modelbuilders would call ‘too huge’, I could publish exact linedrawings and cross section drawings with identical design for the F48-Class and for the MultiOne-Class FOR FREE on the net! -
As each and every buildingstep of these two smaller trimarans would be identical to my own big version, I would document the steps - and anyone interested could follow me in his own choosen size! -

I really would like you to VOTE, which project sounds most interesting for you! -
Which one would be the most promising ‘Peacemaker-Project’ for this whole community within this forum! -
But if nobody is interested at all, I still would build one of these three projects. -

I hope, we can fill this forum with polite, friendly and creative LIFE again - and this ‘Peacemaker-Project’ should be seen as my humble participation! -

So please vote, and also tell us about your own projects! -
Best wishes, Ernst Zemann

Professional shipwright - boatbuilder/-designer with 25 years of experience and a special interest in multhulls

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I wanted to add some pictures:

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Professional shipwright - boatbuilder/-designer with 25 years of experience and a special interest in multhulls

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Ernest!
Peace (English), Frieden (German), Fred (Swedish) is worth a lot. Perhaps this project can be conducted in cooperation with ASPR of your country? ASPR=Austrian Study center for Peace and conflict Resolution:
www.aspr.at/aspr.htm
It is an independent, non-profit, non-partisan organisation well suited for any idealist. It should bring solid foundation to this project. My German is rather rusty, so you prbably is best suited for contact with them. Ich habe nur drei Jahren Deutch studiert. Die prepositionen: durch, fur, gegen, ohne, um… Perhaps Ernst, you can fill the rest of the prepositions in. The difficult German grammatics, I don’t remember all the prepositions guiding this object-form (akusativ or genitiv?). Mit Freundlichen Gruessen.
Regards,
Booster

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My vote goes to the 60" trimaran.

Ian Sammis

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Dear Booster,-
I know, that my english isn’t perfect, but I hope you understood, what this topic is about! -

Could you therefore please be so kind, to tell me about YOUR next project if you may? -
And not go off topic from the start? -
Thank you! -

Could you please tell me as well, which one of these three projects you would like most? -
But only, if it doesn’t overtax you! -
(I hope, I found the right word in the dictionary -…-)

Dear Ian,
I KNEW, you would vote for the 60"-trimaran! -

But I also need some other opinions here! -
Especially from the MONOHULL-party! -
Thank you, Ernst

Professional shipwright - boatbuilder/-designer with 25 years of experience and a special interest in multhulls

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Ernst,

I chartered a 45 foot cruising cat a couple of years ago and the boat was a DOG!!!

http://www.moorings.com/fleet_details.asp?fttype=45X4C

The boat was fast enough, I guess. We were able to maintain double digits on the speedo for the entirety of a 45 mile blue water crossing from St. Lucia to St. vincent.

But the motion of the boat was intolerable. Multihulls simply do not sail well in any sort of sea state! With a monohull, the boat heels over and then the bow pitches up and down in the swells with a very regular and predictable motion. It is quite pleasing once you get used to it. But with the cat, the windward bow would rise, then the whole windward hull, then the leeward bow would rise and the windward hull would drop then the leeward stern would rise. The boat was pitching and rolling all over the place with no regular pattern. It was horrible. My entire crew got sea sick (many had cruised with me on monohulls before with no problems). The sea state was 6 foot ocean swells which was actually quite moderate for the windward islands.

Another problem was the upwind performance. We were lucky to make a heading of 60 degrees to the true wind. On our crossing back to St. Lucia, the heading to the harbor was at about 50 degrees to the true wind andwe were able to point right at it but our leeway was so severe that we ended up several miles to leeward of the island and had to motor to windward in a very disturbed sea state to make our harbor.

This type of boat could really use some help in the performance area without comprimising the interior ammenities. I think it would be awesome to model a boat like this. You could easily include the interior details. you could also demonstrate the sailing capabilities in a variety of wind and sea conditions and show how improved hull shape could lead to better sailing characteristics without comprimising the livability.

Cruising multihulls are getting quite popular in the carribean (and in the mediterranean as well, I believe). but these boats are not great boats to sail. I refuse to ever charter one of these again because my experience was so bad. Given how chaotic the boat motion was, it could really use some “peace” in that regard. And if this boat could be made fun to sail, it would really make for a great boat for nice relaxing “peaceful” vacations.

So my vote is for the 16m cruising cat.

Will Gorgen

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Dear Will Gorgen,
thank you very much for this precise discription! -

I haven’t sailed a Mooring-Catamaran yet - but I totally understand your disappointment about it’s sailing performance! -
If I translate word-by-word:
In german we call this strange catamaran motion the ‘corkscrew-motion’ - it is really able to make people sick! -

Even ‘old salts’. -

I have made this experience as well, but I have also sailed cruising catamarans, which didn’t have these problems. Neither the ‘corkscrew-motion’, nor the poor upwind abilities. -

I will keep this in mind, while I continue with the plans and calculations for the cat-model! -

Thanks,Ernst

Professional shipwright - boatbuilder/-designer with 25 years of experience and a special interest in multhulls

8

I have a Footy sitting on my table waiting for me to pay attention to it but how ever this is going to be my next project.

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/store/Prodinfo.ASP?NUMBER=620-050&MITEM=1

An ARF if you will, I’ll have to take the Dremel to it and add a removable keel plus R/C to make it sail.

I used to have a Chinese junk once. I wonder what happened to it?

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Ernest!
My vote is for the 16m cruising cat.
Regards,
Booster

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just brought back a MicroMagic from Europe [;)]

Wis

_/ if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it! _

http://wismerhell.esmartdesign.com/index.htm

11

i vote for the cat as well. maybe get a version of the 16 foot hobie?
i would like that very much
cougar
long live the cup and cris dickson

12

I am working on four Nightmares and an Atlantis schooner ( Robbe ). I like the detail on the junk but would like to hear that more multi hulls are being designed, built and race against each other.

13

I’ve got an IOM, to my own design, underway. At present the shadows are temporarily mounted on the building board ('cause I couldn’t wait to get a 3-dimensional feel of what she will look like) but I’ve still got to finish fairing the last 5 shadows down to their final shape.

To save (or at least defer) great personal embarassment, I’ll keep most of the details under wraps until she floats.

Muzza

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I forgot to vote - the 60" tri.

Muzza

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y not a 30m tri?

I see said the blind man to the crippled nudist who put his hands in his pockets & promptly walked away.

16

preposition… als auser bei mit nach dem zu… heheheheh

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Hi all! -
Please keep voting and telling us about your own projects! -

  1. Dear ‘Rcher’ that’s really a pretty boat! -
    I love it’s lines! -
    Was this a full - or only a ‘half’ -
    vote for the chinese junk? -

  2. Will Gorgen and Booster voted for the 16m Cruising Catamaran - thank’s! -

Dear Cougar - you vote for a cat - thanks! -
Unfortunately the 16’ Hobie is a beach cat, supposed to be sailed with at least one guy using the trapeze - and we don’t want to go into that ‘moving ballast topic’ again - right? -
A proper working rc-cat would need to look like one of these huge oceangoing cats - like ‘Playstation’, ‘Orange’ - or maybe ‘Team Philips’. -
I got line drawings for the ‘Playstation’ - which can be built for the F48-Class - or the F60-Class. - One meter would be too small for good sailing performance. -

  1. Dear wismerhell - the ‘micro magic’ is a cute little boat from Graupner! -
    I didn’t have an opportunity to sail it yet, but on the upcoming weekend (21-22 Aug) we’ll have a sailboat meeting here at Vienna. Maybe some guys will show up with ‘Micro’s’ - and I can give it a try. -
    You forgot to vote -…-

  2. Dear Hoj - definitely a vote for one of the multihulls! - And a half vote for the junk? -

5)Dear Muzza - I’m looking forward to see your new IOM yacht - as soon as you are willing to share your secrets with us. - One more vote for the trimaran - cool! -

  1. Dear ‘yachtie2K4’ -
    I would love to build a 30ft. Trimaran, but 30 meters it a BIT too expensive for me -…- sorry, but my pockets aren’t big enough to hold all these bucks! -
    Right now I would be happy, to cut down the costs for the one-off 60" tri-model to 400 bucks and 200 hours labourtime. - The F60 ‘Daydreamer’ was 1000 bucks and 400-500 hours! - As the scale of the model is 1:6, the money-relation is 1:6x6x6=216! -
    For the 30ft tri this still would mean 86400 US-dollars. This relation doesn’t fit for the labourtime, but I would be happy, if I could do it(the big one)in 2000-2500 hours -…-

  2. Dear Larry Ludwig -
    [:-jump2]I’m a shipwright, not a ‘preposition-dealer’ - sorry, if my english isn’t perfect! - [:-jump] - You’re going off topic [:-jester] - and you forgot to vote! -[:-paperbag][:-party]

Ernst[:-pirate]

Professional shipwright - boatbuilder/-designer with 25 years of experience and a special interest in multhulls

18

Ernest, If I were to vote on a boat to build I would probably vote on #3, the trimaran and I would vote to paint it Fiji colors. The Junk is my second choice.

But the truth is, I think you should build the boat that blows your skirt up and gets your heartrate going. The sleek Fiji is a sexy boat, the cruising catamaran is like your wife and you’re gonna be hungry again an hour after you finish the Chinese Junk. [;)][:)]

19

Ernest!
To bring some glamour to this project it should be supported by your countryman Tornado Olympic Goldmedallist Roman Hagara. Do you have good cooperation with multihull-sailor Hagara?
Regards,
Booster

20

Hello to all trimaran interested friends! -
Some very interesting things are going on here! -
Actually I would have NEVER expected, that MOST VOTES will go to that new trimaran-project!!! -
Really - I didn’t expect that! -
But I still don’t know, if most of the MONOHULL-party just stay quiet! -
Anyway, as long as I don’t get different opinions, I will continue to publish informations about my newest multihull-project here! -
Please scroll down for lots of plans and drawings! -
On these drawings you can see the main design differences between my last 2M Trimaran ‘Bonduelle’ - and the ‘Bayer Crop Science’, which is the sistership of ‘Fuji’ and ‘Sergio Tacchini’! -

Dear Booster,
I never had the opportunity to meet Roman Hagara in person, but some years ago I had a very interesting 3 hours talk to two top managers of his main sponsor - the company RED BULL! -
It was about their basic promotion stategy and why and how they choose their sponsored project and persons. -
Unfortunately my own project doesn’t fit their needs - therefore there is no chance to get a sponsor contract there! -

Dear Rcher,
what you wrote is VERY TRUE! -
Thank you very much for these wise words! -

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Professional shipwright - boatbuilder/-designer with 25 years of experience and a special interest in multhulls