Dick Lemke to cougar in marbleheads grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr “…If you won’t spend the money to join AMYA, at least drop a dime and call and talk to the guy”… “Resolution for 2008 - Join the AMYA and the M Class if you are serious?”
Dick, is it just me or does your tone seems a bit harsh here? Prompted me to go over to the AMYA site to see the what I’m missing.

I’ve joined and let my membership lapse probably three times, and I know I’ll join again. Its because I live in Nowheresville and build yachts for my personal enjoyment, sail them in solitude except for talking with people who walk up to me for a conversation.

In times past I joined AMYA so my boats were registered (so I could race), for Model Yachting magazine, and since I felt obligated as you kinda suggest.

I know there are many reasons to support the organization; countless volunteers (like yourself) and the need for a governing body which costs money to survive. And, I love the hobby… and I’m “serious”. But I also believe in the membership being a choice thing, and without ridicule however slight… not like its wrong to be outside the mainstream.

Please convince me otherwise…


Nope, it’s not just you - tone is harsh.

Here are a few quotes I like to keep around…just as reminders when non-members get upset because they didn’t receive information for free, plans for free, fast enough service or response or for any perceived “slight” from a volunteer…

……as a possible new member he should respond quickly. I do realize it’s only been 1 day

…….no matter how you look at it being paid, or volunteering your time and knowledge to AMYA you are still their representative 24/7 and should provide full and detailed information when requested

…… maybe someone should seal the cave up if this is the attitude the so called guru has

….I don’t know him from Adam nor do I care what he has or hasn’t done who according to some is the guru

….I’m not the type to take my toys home to be honest but if no ones either answering mail or posting on the forum its hard to interact and find out things.

….I am going to make it my mission to see if I can’t get this class going again. I don’t know what happened to it. As I can’t get any information. Even from the class secretary. I have emailed him, and no response.

So, it seems as soon as we volunteer, we become a 24/7, 3 second response. If we fail at that, we open ourselves up to a critique - which is fine from folks who have paid for that service - but not for those who look for free stuff just because they can ask for it.

Not a critique of Cougar specifically since above remarks came in over time, but just a reminder that if you have a personal problem, a public forum is not the place to air it in a shotgun approach, unless you are willing to field the responses that come back …such as “Get Involved” - which I truly hope he does. My personal view of course, and does not reflect that of AMYA it’s members or volunteers.

Very well said, Dick. Now I understand the comment of impatience that didn’t set well with you.

And… I was clueless that non-members asked anything of the organization, let alone so much.


And by the way …

by PM messages, information was provided to Cougar and we are STILL on good terms. (so far - he is Canadian, after all) :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

I appreciate your asking Yar - since it is easy for a rant “in general” to appear to be directed at one person - not so in this case, especially when other readers aren’t aware of circumstances.

I had a long response, but suffice to say, it is amazing how many times people are looking for free plans, that if/when built could be a boat worth more than $800 - $1,000 … yet they “balk” at the suggestion to purchase the drawings for a cost of $3 to $13 - We all love to dispense information to others - it makes us feel good that we can help out. It is just too easy sometimes to forget the person answering is doing it out of love of the hobby/sport - not for profit or a way of life. Weighing their response history is something we all need to do. Patience truly is needed when getting something for free.

[I humbly bow and back out of the room]

dont worry about the tone. i agree with dick on certian things. and we are still friends. ( even though he drives those wierd boats with training wheels:p)
i think the tone was set not for me in as much as people , who ask for information ,then dont do anything with it. or they ask for it and expect it right away. not realising . that some people have a life. and cant get it to them as soon as they want it. the last quote he used was mine, and it was not to be taken as a threat. just that I personaly went to a regatta and heard about these boats. and when i check the list there are alot out there. BUT when it comes to finding information. you have to go to a public forum such as this., now what i plan to do. is try and find out

  1. can i build one?
  2. what happend to it in my country( canada home of real beer)
  3. can i help bring some people together
    i am stupid. i do voulenter with alot of functions. and i know what dick is getting at. what i was simply trying to do was find information. a simple drawing to see what i was getting into. or a picture. i was having a tough time
    there is no harm or foul done. dick just let off some steam as he has a right. i am not a member of the amya anymore. but i am a member of the crya. personal problems with that decision. nothing wrong with the amya. i fully surport it

…and the AMYA is working together in the Exec.Council to try and find ways to promote and provide for the membership, and future members… simply because when you mention to a prospective member that joining would be a good option… they of course ask “what is in it for me?” There are a lot of good reasons, and one that I am promoting is that there is a lot more sailing than racing, and we need to reach out more in the direction of guys that simply just enjoy sailing their models. But, I never miss a chance to plug the Association, I have been in since 1981 and always encourage others to do the same… now that we have the internet… the exchange of information is amazing! We are all learning at such an accelerated rate that it has and will have a tremendous impact on model sailing, and I am very pleased to be a part of it at this time of rapid growth.


i agree totaly with you. the amya is an important source. you get some much help for so little. for someone to just start out. who would know dick lemke. or roy langboard. both are very good at helping anybody who ask. i know i bugged steve landue. the IOM sectary. there is a big piece that i found was incrediable. that construction guide. how do you argue with that. you can give that to a newbie. who has never built a boat before. let him read it. and the next year he will have a boat in the water,
the amya is to my way of thinking. one of the best at surporting its own people.

Larry -

your post was one of those “enlightenment” moments. I am not sure how we pull it off, or if it is possible to accomplish in 2008, but I plan to bring Bill Young (Open Class) secretary into the mix after the holidays. It would be interesting to see if one - or three “Open” sailing events could be done around the country where the event is promoted as a sailing event - not a racing one. I’m not sure of potential interest, or if folks would take vacation to attend an event that ISN’T racing, but perhaps a East, Midwest, and West club would entertain the thought of a day of just plain sialing for any/everything. No throphies, just a minimum entry fee to cover food/beverages perhaps - but provide a venue to bring out the non-racers. See how well a US1M or M class boat really sails with a canting keel. Demo a few multihulls for promotion/education. Get the little Wal-Mart “plastics” out and allow owners to see the differences in performances for the differences in costs.

Can something like this take place during a regional event? Is there room and radio frequency space available? Bring out the Square riggers and schooners and demo them. Anyone have a 1:10 scale VOR boat? Let’s see it and they can sailed without need to compete. If the French can do it why not us?

Maybe a new thread may increase interest and provide persons a place to post ideas on how to make it a success. Locally we have an evening “Lighthouse” sail, and a lot of boats appear that aren’t normally seen during the year. Its held on a pond next to a huge mall, and the public is always drawn to the event. Local Laser Rental guys allow free demos. Club memebrs hand off radios to interested folks. Boats in process of being built “could” be displayed.

I do agree with you we need to “reach out” with non-competitive event for many. Once on the water, a race or two may break out, but the effort is to increase exposure and interest.

Anyone interested in the idea?

I am totally bummed with the folks at the AMYA. Shortly before leaving my last residence in San Diego, I emailed them a forwarding address so I could continue getting my magazines. I did not get a response back and just hoped that it was all taken care of. After a month or so and no mag, I checked the AMYA’s website to see if the new issue was out and sure enough it was so I emailed the president explaining my problem. He was rather curt in response wanting to know when I emailed the change of address. After I explained to him roughly when it would have been and the last issue I received the fourth out of six, he responded that the last issue I had was months ago and that was the last I heard from him. Anyway, my take on it is you shouldn’t be too concerned with adding new members if they can’t take care of the ones they already have. Bunch of worms.

For 7WT

please send me your information new/old address, AMYA # and I will get your subscription straightened out. Pete Maxson the president is really loaded up, and while I am sure that he would want to get your problem solved, it really would be more in the area of Michelle Dannehoffer to get your records corrected. Even if Pete wanted to help, it would still be Michelle that would actually perform the magic that would make it happen. I am sure that there was just a miscue in the information and it can be corrected.



I can’t remember how far back, or what I said… but as to the open events… the one thing that I was amazed to learn was that if a boat is registered in a class… then it does not qualify as “open” class. I thought Open mean… well… Open… as in… anything that you can bring. Not so.

We have the Earthday event at Woodlawn in San Antonio each year, and each year, we try and increase the number of boats that are displayed. Last year I think it was 61 boats. I forget how many classes… but darn close to 20 if I remember correctly. We had almost one of every class save for the Wheeler and Infinity 54, and many that were from bygone eras and either never obtained class status, or… had lost it over the years (6 meter good example)

I would not recommend attempting to do this at an existing regatta or event… because of the problems you mentioned. It would be almost a “catch-all” for complainers and grouches to have a distraction taking place during an event. I have also heard comments from event staff that they did not appreciate someone pulling out a different class of boat after the days sailing was over… and continuing to sail around. It was viewed as a distraction to planned events that were voluntary… but would cause skippers to be missing from them.

I think that having a strong showing of models at a boat show (full size) or a trade/hobby show would be an excellent idea. It could also be very helpful and informative in large metroplex areas which have several clubs that are not always in good contact with each other. This is something John Hanks and I are working on at present is contacting all the clubs in Region 5 so that we can confirm all the needed information… which all too often comes up incorrect. The emphasis should be (in my opinion)
[li]to get the guys out to the lake
[/li][li]to get the boats out to the lake
[/li][li]To get some boats on the water
[/li][li]to get some notice/publicity for the club

Whether or not boats get wet, I think would be second nature to just getting the skippers to come out period. There are so many boats out there right now, in attics, basements, garages… that have been sitting there for years, and even decades… the internet is doing it’s part to help them find their way back to the lake, I think it would be a wonderful thing to help this anyway we can. I think too… that you might be surprised how easy it is to get skippers to show up for these events. Many times this is just what the doctor ordered. I have found a great number of guys with boats don’t come out because of all the obvious reasons, not the least of which are they never finished their boat, they don’t want to race, they want to race but don’t want to be humiliated while learning… and getting them to the lake is the first step.

We will be back out in March, with more boats and more pictures and more cameras… and I encourage anyone that has an area that needs some help boosting out the old and new boats… to please ask for help, either here, or with the AMYA proper, or contact myself, and I will do anything I can to help you down the best possible path.

Larry :slight_smile:

As the curt president that is referred to in 7wt’s e-mail, I would like to respond.
I am a volunteer like ALL 60 managers/administrators/editors are of the AMYA.
I have a full time job ( antique boat restoration ) a family ( wife, three kids and 4 grandkids ) and also volunteer at my local hospital and my village welcome center.
That being said. In my first year as President of the AMYA I have received over 5,000 ( yes 5,000) e-mails associated with the AMYA.
I try and respond to all as soon and as completely as possible.
My phone number is listed as well as my e-mail address in every issue of Model Yachting.
I do not recall more than one e-mail from the person complaining and certainly no phone call. For him to paint me and the AMYA with a broad stroke like he did leaves me wondering why I volunteered to serve the AMYA in the first place. AH!, but then I remember the 2900+ members who are happy with the association. I remember the volunteers and members like Rich who go out of their way to make good things happen.
If you have a problem with the AMYA or with me as the president call me, don’t take cheap shots at me or the Association. Now, if the Association wants to make me an employee than I will take all the cheap shots you can muster. Until then, I suggest you help to solve the “problem” not create it and then paint an innacurate picture in a public forum.

Oh BTW Happy New Year,

Pete Maxson

You had ample opportunity to correct the problem, simply state that you would look into it or forward the emails to the the correct person so that it could be corrected. However, you opted for none of those options. I wish I had saved the emails to so that I could show you lack of concern but it seems that your post did that quite well. Are you actually trying to tell me that you would have responded better to a phone call rather than the two emails? Should I have emailed you twice THEN called you as well because I am automatically suppose to know that you have more on your plate than you can handle? As to your complaining about the 5000 emails, had you fixed my problem when you were notified, you would have only received 4999. That’s how it works. Understand that as a President of an organization, you reflect that organization through your leadership or lack there of. You will be glad to know that the situation has been corrected through my bringing it to the attention of the forum and Rich’s concern. I tried to bring it to your attention but it seems you had more important things to deal with at the time.

By the way, if you can point out where I painted an inaccurate picture here, please let me know and I will correct it. To suggest that I took a cheap shot at you is misleading. I tried to resolve the “problem” through more conventional methods. In addition, to place the word “problem” in quotation marks is your attempt to imply that my problem isn’t one at all. I would say that paying for something and not receiving it is a “problem” that you should be concerned with. Trust me, others will see your attitude as well.

I’m lov’n this forum right now.

Regardless of the fur that’s flying above this post… we got the AMYA President and execs here… in other topics there’s sailors from half a dozen continents talking technical (gurus)… some newbies with their enthusiasm evident… the place is really interesting right now.


welcome to the board. sorry you had to come in this way. I had a small problem with the amya. but after talking to michelle. it was solved rather quickly. i cannot say about other people , with there problems. and this is not the place to air grevances( i know… i misspelled a word again) but i would hope this could be a place to help people out. like where to go for information.
how to make sails. ect
i know working as a volunteer. is a thankless job. i do it alot where i live. and alot of people dont know what is is to make a magazine work. i know about another such organisation simular to oursleves. THE SUBCOMMITTE REPORT.
This is also an all volunteer group. they also had problems. but put out a word for help. anybody to write an article, buy a certian date. and they got the report back on track.
I am by no means an expert., but if you could tell us some problems maybe we could help? i am not being a smartass. most people here no me as a good guy. who just likes to help
and again pete

for 7WT, I just found your PM, I was looking for an email, I will try and get it squared away ASAP.


Larry Ludwig

OK, I am still behind the herd… Rich already has it taken care of… man do I feel useless… sheeesh…

Enjoy the read… sure are nice boats in those issues by the way…:smiley:

I am looking forward to it. I am a bit of a ODOM freak. I have wanted one since the article in Model Boat Action about ten years ago or so. I lived in San Diego for a couple of years and watched them re-establish the fleet there and was very disappointed that I had to move.

It seems to be endemic among people who run national model yachting authorities: ‘we are amateurs, so we can’t be expected to do it very well’. The same noises go out on this side of the Atlantic.

I was always brouht up to believe that a decent amateur should always beat a ho-hum prfessional; because he is doing something he likes, he will worker harder and longer and take more care.

I am the class secretary of the Footy Class in the UK. We have achieved a class culture of excellence. Of course we get things wrong, of course we loose emails, of course we miss opportunitis- but we do recognise these things as avoidable mistakes to be engineered out in future if at all possible.

If any of my team came to me with the ‘but we’re only amateurs’ excuse, there would be a major row. If I am ever found making it, I should be shown the door - particuarly if I am making it as a public excuse for sub-standard service to a member. If you haven’t got time to deal with problems like that, why not ask the guy whethr he wants to join in and help. Chances are that he will feel good and that the system will run better next time.

Perhaps that is why we have grown from 24 registerd boats to 145 in 14 months.

I gotta take a “shot” here Angus … there is a world of difference when running a single class as you are doing, and having a national organization (AMYA) trying to support twenty-six (26) classes with membership numbers ranging from 20 registered boats (Footy) to 765 registered boats (Soling 1 Meter).

Of course we aren’t so stupid as to NOT ask for help, but there isn’t a rush for volunteers at the class level, let alone at the National level. We do what we do because we enjoy it - yes … but unless employment and wages make it our “primary” job, I’m sorry - some things have less priority than others.

While it’s great you have 145 boats - when you get to 3,862 registered boats (October 2006 AMYA registered boat list I happened to have on hand) then perhaps you can grasp the magnitude of Pete’s and other volunteer’s efforts trying to keep everyone happy. Of course, those same people that usually complain about “lack of service” - are the ones who raise holy-hell if a dues increase is being discussed. Again, not to offer excuses - just facts - these 3,862 registered boats are being maintained by only one person that is paid - the rest are volunteers.

If something isn’t to your liking (as a member) there are multiple ways to press the issue via …

  1. Local club officers
  2. Class Secretary
  3. Regional Director
  4. Executive staff
  5. Executive Board

And yes, this is my own biased opinion and does not reflect the AMYA’s official position.

So - to be fair, and with all due respect - let’s not make a comparison of 145 registered boats to nearly 4,000 boats - sorry but you’re not even in the same league in effort or support.

Possibly but he has a point. It should be driven by the love of the sport and not used as an opportunity to whine. Would I do it? No way but then again I know what I am capable of and what I am not. I also know that RC sailing is a side hobby to me as my primary interest are elsewhere. I could give you one stellar example of a well run magazine by a collection of people that haven’t published one before that would knock you socks off. They do it for the love and nothing else and it shows. If you want to see what can be done you should check out the Overland Journal at and prepare to drool…providing you like that sort of thing.