Who has experiences with this sails ?
I have been looking around in the net, there is not much about it, or then its look awfull, for exemple like this.
I mean this ist not a spinaker or a genaker
Eric,
You opened the pandora box!
REad the forum (archive), you cant miss ALL these info…its all over the place!<font color=“red”>at least the one from microsail…and on a completely personal point of view…this doesnt look like a spin…way too small (NO OFFENCE HERE DOUG!</font id=“red”>
Wis
<font color=“red”>Edit in red</font id=“red”>
_/ if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it! _
Sorry, if this question had been asked before, i didn?t know that.
Sometimes i?m too lazy to read everything and anyway, things are changing.
Its worth asking anyway I believe. One shouldn’t have to avoid asking questions that have already been asked a lot.
Spinnakers were common on model yachts before the days of R/C. This never ceases to puzzle me. People don’t want to get up out of their portable lawn chairs and walk, or run, to the other side of the pond.
They wouldn’t even have to if they had a crew person standing on the other side. They could even have rudder control with a servo which would keep the spinaker filled. I guess we love being able to go around marks just like the big boats, and we love our winches and our radios.
(I’m thinking single leg racing)
You might look at the U.S Vintage Model Yacht site at www.amya.org.
Good luck
Well, having raced that boat for 8 years I can tell you it works like a spinnaker, sets like a spinnaker, gybes like a spinnaker and douses like a spinnaker. There are many full size examples of small sized spinnakers and there are good reasons behind the size of this one. The number one reason is that the original founders of the class did not want to have to change the spinnaker depending on wind strength.
There is absolutely no reason that a spinnaker couldn’t be larger but it would have to be changed in differing wind strengths just like you do A,B and C rigs.There are also issues with the spinnaker tube and winch.
The Spinnaker 50 ,for instance has a masthead spinnaker with the main reefed and our Melges 24 model has an almost masthead asymetrical spinnaker with retracting bow pole.
There are things to learn in adapting spinnakers to rc boats and I hope more people try it.
As to America One, it is the only(PRODUCTION-as far as I know) IACC model that has a working spinnaker but more importantly its not there just for looks: it can be carried from 3mph to 30mph without being changed and in one design racing you simply can’t compete without having practiced spinnaker sets ,douses and gybes: that is really the key because you can’t win a race in this class w/o having good spinnaker handling skills…
edt: added:(PRODUCTION-as far as I know-correction pointed out by Eric)
edt:sp
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by lorsail
As to America One, it is the only IACC model that has a working spinnaker
edt:sp
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing
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Thats absolutly false !!!
They use them in France for Years,Doug.Here again your Informations are not correct.
I think Eric is right there I am sure that I have seen may rc sail boats with spinnakers on them in books and magazines and on the net.
What is the problem with changing the spinnaker for different conditions just like you do the rest of your rig it is all about boat set up. Surely if the spinnaker lifts the bow as stated then if the spinnaker is bigger you are only going to get more lift this applies to gennakers as well a small gennaker does not give the same lift as a larger one, smaller tight luffed genannkers made more for tight reaching do not give a lot of lift so why say state that teh spinnaker lifts the bow but it cannot be to big because of wind conditions. Bigger the better to a point but they need to have some shape the photoed above one looks like a flat panle from half way down and it would be easier to trim as well if it had some shape and faster.
My two cents
You’re right Eric; I forgot to insert the word PRODUCTION: America One is the only production IACC model available now anywhere as far as I know.
There are many other spinnaker models including but not limited to several done by Rich Matt over twenty years ago here in the US. One of his spinnaker equipped Marbleheads actually won races in that class.
There is one guy in the UK and one in Australia that are actually building “A” class boats using spinnakers-those are just the ones I know about. Plus at least a dozen others working on experimental systems on both large and small models. Recently, a guy has put an asymetrical spin(w/o pole) on an AC model here in the states(see Model Yachting) and see “Chapeau” under General Discussion for another very large rc spinnaker model extremely well done.
LIFT
Symetrical or asymetrical rc spinnakers especially those on boats 65"( 1.65m) and under have a limit in size imposed by by stability and pitchpole resistance. Having the angle of the spinnaker from the tack or pivot position to the mast/halyard intersection
correct in higher wind stengths is essential or the spin will cause the boat to pitchpole.The correct angle allows even a symetrical spin to develop upward lift on the bow regardless of wind strength.
This DOES NOT prohibit the use of larger spins in lighter air…
edt: add LIFT; add “A” class
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by lorsail
There are many other spinnaker models including but not limited to several done by Rich Matt over twenty years ago here in the US. One of his spinnaker equipped Marbleheads actually won races in that class.
<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>
How can that be ?
Marblehead sail surface is clearly defined in the rules
It’s only been in the last five years or so that spinnakers were outlawed in the Marblehead and 10 Rater; before that they were legal…
The biggest problem in any recognized class is the pole restrictions that were imposed years before anybody did an rc spinnaker in most cases. Some solutions like the AC class boat featured in Model Yachting(the AMYA publication) tack the asy spin to the bow and don’t use a pole; the two “A” class guys that I know about are using twin poles arrangements.
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by lorsail
It’s only been in the last five years or so that spinnakers were outlawed in the Marblehead …; before that they were legal…
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So, why dou you write:
One of his spinnaker equipped Marbleheads actually won races in that class?
I have been sailing M-Boats for 15 years and I never heard about that.
Do you have any proofs of this alegation ? would interest me.
The guys’ name is Rich Matt; he is one of the founders of he American Model Yachting Association. He is also a member here; you can look up his e-mail address here under members, on the amya.org site or e-mail me and I’ll give it to you.
This guy is not only a nice guy but a great sailor and a great contributor to the well being of rc yacht racing in the United States so keep that in mind if you want an answer from him.
I have all the copies of the articles he wrote in the early issues of model yachting…
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing
thats not answering my question.
but, anyway , who cares…
Actually Eric, he did answer your question.
You asked “Do you have any proof of this alegation”.
Doug answered “I have all the copies of the articles he wrote in the early issues of model yachting…”
So you see, he did answer your question. But more importantly, he told you how to get ahold of the guy who did it so that you can verify these “allegations” yourself.
If you are interested in spinnakers, I suggest you give Rich a call. I’ve chatted with him on the phone on one occasion and he is very pleasant to talk to. He also has email…
And as far as “who cares” please keep in mind that you started this topic…
- Will
Will Gorgen
If doug has the copies he can scan them.
I just dont believe that Spis where allowed in the Marblehead class 5 years ago
Look, fist doug writes his boats are the only one with spy, than he tell he forgot to write a word
Than he tells than Actually m. boats are sailing with spis. than tell it was 5 yers ago.
so why this ?
because he wants to sell ?
when you want to sell it?s better to be honest and not to tell Farytales
Eric,
In your opening post you ask “who has experience with these sails (spinnakers)” and then post a picture of a boat that Doug built. When Doug tells you his “experience” with his production boats (the spinnaker 50 and the America One) as well as some historical information that he knows about (Rich Matt’s M boat from 20+ years ago) you bite his head off. What gives?
Yes, Doug would love to sell boats, but mainly he was explaining why the boat looks the way it does. If you want more information on the Rich’s M boat or the Marblehead class rules from days gone by, then call Rich Matt and ask him! Doug only knows about the M class and Rich’s boat because he took the time to do the research.
- Will
Will Gorgen
Eric,
Are you putting a spinnaker on your new boat? I would love to see a picture of your beautiful new ACC boat with a working spinnaker. You have done some wonderful work on that boat. That been said I want to rag on you a moment.
Wether you meant to do it or not making rude comments about other peoples work is not very kind. Many in the RC community do not share your opinions that the spinnaker pictured is “awfull”. Although I chuckled at your opening comment it really is not constructive for the board.
However if you want to harass Doug about his unsubstantiated claims and designs you will need to get in line. Somewhere behind me.[:D]
Tom
Seawind #80
I was around at the time Rich Matt was sailing his M boat with a spinnaker.
Time frame was closer to 20 years ago, rather than five.
Not only did I see this boat sail, I raced against it. All in all it was a very impressive system in terms of engineering and not a major speed advantage. The issues involved were the additional weight of the system and the fact that the pole had to be pre-set to one tack and one position. This meant that if you luffed the spinnaker boat, the chute would collapse.
I don’t recall any of these spinnaker boats winning a regatta, but it was a long time ago.
with all this being siad the topic is off line.
weather doug did this or doug did that. it should not matter. what matters is that somebody asked for help. eric. i am not going to put a spinaker on my nzl 60. there is just no room for it. and personaly. i think it is useless. the size of the hull should dictate whether or not a certain sail is used. i for one. think a full flying genoa is more usefull than a spinaker? you might want to talk with tom williams. he knows alot about sails. and i have talked with him on many occaisions. give him a call
cougar
long live the cup and cris dickson
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by Roy Langbord
I was around at the time Rich Matt was sailing his M boat with a spinnaker.
Time frame was closer to 20 years ago, rather than five.
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Thank you for the Information, i know now that actally means twenty years-
[:D]
PS, I didn?t know when i started the thread that Doug was the owner of Microsail.
But anyway it?s look ugly, and this is my opinion
My Iacc Cupper will maybe have one, but not actually, i will first try do make it sail corectly
[:D]