I would respectfully suggest that you are at liberty to select your fin as Dick suggests for the duration of the regatta.
If that is a two day event or longer and the conditions change tough luck you are stuck with your decision.
Experience tells me that once you have sorted your boat to give the best performance in the most prevalent conditions of your home waters it is prudent to retain that tuning for best overall performance.
“If it aint broke dont fix it”
I would probably concur with Ian, in that once tuned it would require a significant change in weather to consider changing rigs - or keels/keel locations. Since I already have the Footy crowd “pi$$ed” at me, what the heck - why not go for two classes?
Why would the word “day” be inserted - if it has to be the same fin, rudder and sail for the entire regatta? The word “day” isn’t needed - or is it?
Forgetting the keel/bulb and rudder for a moment - and focusing only on rigs/sails - can one change rigs on different regatta days or is the sail and rig also a commitment for the entire regatta?
Added thought: perhaps they are thinking “races” and don’t mean an entire regatta ???
You are able to declare up to three suits of sails, A, B and/or C and can use them all at a regatta. Each suit is considered indivisible, i.e. you can’t use foresail A with mainsail C
oha - it was not my intention to trigger a discussion on rules …
Of course, during a race a fixed position of the keel is required, but for optimizing the boat and to find the optimal position a movable keel is a good choice. I understood Dick’s question in such a way, that he is looking for the best keel position. I see no other way to find it out without building a whole fleet of RGs
Hi,
I just found a picture of my (home made) MicroMagic keel set up. By exchanging the white pieces of plastics the keel fin position can be adjusted by aproximately 1 cm. However, when mounted, the keel is always in a fixed position! This set up (not invented by myself but by the MM designer) has proved so successful for trimming, that the manufacturer has included it in the kit of the new racing MM.
but for optimizing the boat and to find the optimal position a movable keel is a good choice. I understood Dick’s question in such a way, that he is looking for the best keel position. I see no other way to find it out without building a whole fleet of RGs
that´s OK.
To All -
yes, you have answered my question about the rig/sails. But the part I didn’t understand, was if (today) I use a large rig and a keel forward, but at tomorrows race, can I use the smaller rig and a keel mounted aft?
I know I can change rig/sail size from day to day (not during the same day’s racing) - can I do that with the keel too? That was the part of the rules/question I didn’t understand.
I was reading the rule to say the keel could not move during a day of racing, but it could be repositioned for the next day if wind strength changed.
As Maximo says - perhaps with a fleet of four nearly identical boats, I can make one with a long keel box to let me slide the keel to find the optimum location. I will proceed with the test of keel location - and I might have to wait for an actual race to find out if I can move the keel from day to day - or if I get protested.
Thank you all - and if you can find more - or if someone on the international forum can answer please post it here.
:zbeer:
For example.
In a championship of three days you can sign only 3 rigs to use in all the championship.
you can go with all the keels and rudders you want but you can use only one per day.
In the first day you use, for example, the keel number one, but you can´t change it for the rest of the day.
The second day you can use another keel and rudder, but you can´t change it for the rest of the day. etc.
that´s the meaning of one keel per day.(rule 7.1)
Dick, it’s only my personal interpretation, but I think you can change your declared A, B and C rigs during the course of the day, as stated in rule 7.1, “During the day’s regattas, only the declared sails shall be used”. The declared sails are defined in rule 5.2 “The boat may declare up to three (3) indivisible rigs A, B and/or C that individually do not exceed 2,250 cm2 total area”.
However I agree with your interpretation of the keel positioning and that it should be fixed for one day’s racing.
[SIZE=3][SIZE=2]Anyway, rule discussions always seem to be the best way to kill off any i[/SIZE]nterest;)[/SIZE]
unfortunately, you are quite right - even with the quite “open” rules we use here in Germany to get the class off the ground
That´s why the RG65 rules can only be change every four years.
The last chage was in 2006 an the next will be on 2010.
We have 2 years more with this rules.
Yes - rules can end a lot of interest, but going into a class, not knowing the rules, and then being upset because you can’t change them is even worse - in my opinion. I have always challenged people to read the rules of the class before joining and to ASK QUESTIONS - to prevent disappointment later. Especially if you win races but are then disqualified later because of a rule you didn’t understand.
In this case, based on comments from Haegar, Martin and Maximo, I have a good idea of what was “meant” and what I (think) I can do so I can now proceed with the location of keel box.
Thank you for your answers and opinions, because they are based on what some of you have seen in your experience with the class. Now I can go back to building!
That is most interesting and different to other classes.
Every other class I am aware of, allow only one fin or rudder for the entire duration of a contest.
If it is the two hours of a club day competition or the three days of a national championship does not matter.
Once selected you must stay with that selection.
The only exception is in the case of damage and after the race director has viewed the damage an approved rudder or keel of similar type can be used as a replacement.
Obviously during an informal club days sailing you are free to fit what you like and trial against your mates to see which is best.
Just a quick build update - two down and 2 to go !
While still only the basic hulls, the second hull came off faster (and cleaner) than the first. On the first hull, I applied side panels first, then the bottom hull panels. On hull #2 I reversed the process and applied the bottom hull panels - then did the side panels. Not sure, but it “seemed” the second method worked best, allowing me to fit the bottom panels to the bulkheads, trimming as necessary. I then added the side panels, cutting them just a bit larger and letting the edge (chine) stand “proud” of the bottom. It was a lot easier and faster, since I could simply sand down the edge until it matched the bottom panel. I also left out the bow bulkhead, and taped side panels together. Now I can go inside, fit the bulkhead and cut back the side panels flush so bow is ready for the bumper.
I think I will wait on the other two hulls - concentrating on getting the insides done and ready for keel and servos. This will include building trunk and keel, cutting, fitting and the under-deck beams for hard attachment points.
Photos of the two hulls, ready for inside epoxy seam fillets, and then deck timbers, servo beams, etc. Maybe I’ll take a hull in to work Monday and weight on our postal scales to see what weight I have.
Also - a reminder that the Class has established it’s informational (US) website here. If interested in the boats, plans (free) etc. check out these “Mini-Marbleheads”
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RG65SailboatsUS/
EDIT - ADDED FOR INFORMATION:
Just as additional promotion… and buying balsa from a local big crafts store:
Just over $100 plus miscellaneous items to finish out the boat, rig and deck parts (screw eyes, shrouds, etc.).
I would venture a guess that this 25 inch (65 cm) boat would be very competitive against some of the “plastics” costing twice as much. Just a guess of course.
See http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9218116&postcount=16
It shows how I (with a lot of trepidation) attached the fin, basically with 4 mm carbon rod and 4 mm i/d tube instead of the more usual trunk.
Hello everyone -
The RG-65 Class is a monohull development class of approximately 25 1/2 inches in overall length. The class is/has been quite active in South America, Spain, France, Germany and the U.K. and is just starting to see interest here in the US. There doesn’t seem to be much speed difference between balsa and carbon boats, and all up weight is around the 2 lb. mark - making for an easy to build/transport and lightweight boat. There are a huge number of free plans on the internet, and one builder has started a US (and Canada) web forum on Yahoo… Hello everyone -
The RG-65 Class is a monohull development class of approximately 25 1/2 inches in overall length. The class is/has been quite active in South America, Spain, France, Germany and the U.K. and is just starting to see interest here in the US. There doesn’t seem to be much speed difference between balsa and carbon boats, and all up weight is around the 2 lb. mark - making for an easy to build/transport and lightweight boat. There are a huge number of free plans on the internet, and one builder has started a US (and Canada) web forum on Yahoo… http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RG65SailboatsUS/
Because we are new to the class here in the US - starting yet another small boat class will have it’s ups and downs. I have agreed to volunteer to “REGISTER” boats and sail numbers with the class eventually being part of the OPEN Class. Rules have been translated into English by Chris Jackson (editor of Marine Modeling Magazine) and are also available at the web site. Eventually, the class if recognized will need to elect it’s officers.
A quick overview - it’s a mini-Marblehead, 25 1/2 inches long (approx.) monohull with a 43 inch mast and about 300 sq. inches of sail area. As noted keel bulb weight is about 1 lb. with overall sailing weight at around 2 lbs. Development - but with a few restrictions. Multiple rigs allowed, no canting keel. Boat plans range from a simple hard chine 4 panel hull, thru a 6 panel hard chine to a fully rounded hull strip built. Some are even basing their designs on the “Mini” Class and the Open 60 and 70’s.
I thought I would make this announcement, in case anyone is interested and desires a specific sail/hull number. I hope to have a membership form up and ready to go no later than the end of March (probably sooner) and it will be found on the above web site.
Please give some thought to this class - especially if looking for a small, easy to transport boat that can be built at home with quality components and workmanship - as opposed to many of the cheap plastic boats now available. I estimated cost (less epoxy resin) at just over $100 (home built WITH radio gear) and a few are building more than one.
Watch for notice when membership opens.
Because we are new to the class here in the US - starting yet another small boat class will have it’s ups and downs. I have agreed to volunteer to “REGISTER” boats and sail numbers with the class eventually being part of the OPEN Class. Rules have been translated into English by Chris Jackson (editor of Marine Modeling Magazine) and are also available at the web site. Eventually, the class if recognized will need to elect it’s officers.
A quick overview - it’s a mini-Marblehead, 25 1/2 inches long (approx.) monohull with a 43 inch mast and about 300 sq. inches of sail area. As noted keel bulb weight is about 1 lb. with overall sailing weight at around 2 lbs. Development - but with a few restrictions. Multiple rigs allowed, no canting keel. Boat plans range from a simple hard chine 4 panel hull, thru a 6 panel hard chine to a fully rounded hull strip built. Some are even basing their designs on the “Mini” Class and the Open 60 and 70’s.
I thought I would make this announcement, in case anyone is interested and desires a specific sail/hull number. I hope to have a membership form up and ready to go no later than the end of March (probably sooner) and it will be found on the above web site.
Please give some thought to this class - especially if looking for a small, easy to transport boat that can be built at home with quality components and workmanship - as opposed to many of the cheap plastic boats now available. I estimated cost (less epoxy resin) at just over $100 (home built WITH radio gear) and a few are building more than one.
Watch for notice when membership opens.
Here’s the testbed, in the water for the first time. No time to tune, just a “splash and dash” for some pictures. The deck layout pic shows how the major masses are concentrated around the LCB. This is from a cut-down version of the student boat described elsewhere. The hull balance was pretty much maintained, as can be seen by the absence of diving tendencies while under heel. Now for the “drops of water and grains of sand,” as Mike Vanderbilt described the process of tuning a racing yacht.
Cheers,
Earl
Very nice Earl.
Interesting rig you’ve gone for. Is that a carbon tube you are using on the forestay? I don’t see a masthead crane or backstay - or is that just a trick of the light?
Yup. Rigid forestay, swept back spreaders instead of a forestay to get mast curve for the flat sails. Will be playing with all kinds of rigs on this boat.
Cheers,
Earl
Way to go - Earl !!!
Thanks for the quick post on the photos, and a “Well Done” for your effort. I thought I was going to be able to beat you on the “splash” - but alas - temps this morning were still a -5 degrees ! Our soft water is hard, so even if I was ready, the water wasn’t.
What this means - if you are interested, is that the honorary USA #1 Hull/Sail number is yours.
I’m still trying to find out how other organizations did their number assignments - based on hull or based on sail. I am leaning toward a different hull number for each boat, but a one-time sail number assigned to the builder for all rigs, for all hulls. Thus, the hull number is registered, but the sail number is yours - regardless of the hull number. I don’t think those who are real builders want different sail numbers (for each hull they may have). BUT … if you sell hull and rig, we have a problem of what to assign the new owner if you keep the other rigs.
Any suggestions appreciated. FROM ANYONE !
Let me know if you prefer a different number - but you definitely have earned the number 1