That seems rather … ummm … unusual - considering most builders “thinking” about a class might want to have some questions answered before they decide to build.
How many “newbies” have posted on this forum long before they have chosen a class or built a boat as an example. Rather odd indeed, but I admit I haven’t tried to joint the international web forum since there is no English speaking threads available - or there wasn’t the last time I looked.
I think it is a great idea myself.
There is plenty of information about the web on these boats,I know I have found a lot without having to sign up to any forums.
Why would the RG65 class want tire kickers and s…t stirrers filling up there forums?
From experience with another class I think it is a good idea that you should have a boat before being allowed a say on an “official” site.
Just my view…
It has its pros and cons but it doesn’t really offer a lot for the prospective builder/sailor. The International site lodges fora for the various official national RG65 organisations. Meanwhile, Sven’s usergroup may provide support to English speaking newcomers.
Personally, I’m not to keen on the usergroup format and would much rather see something like what this site has done for Footies.
Hi Brett
Tend to agree when the forum is the official forum for an international class association. As Martin says, though, this doesn’t help the prospective builder, but then a different forum is what is needed anyway.
At the risk of being a tyre kicker or a s**t stirrer (who, me?!?), there is one comment I would very much want to make to the RG65 class, and that is to introduce a depth limit urgently. It is the one aspect of an otherwise very attractive concept that could severly limit its take-up. Something close to 500 mm should do nicely.
The Marblehead has been in decline for many years, not least because of the length of its keel. Recently, the attempt to limit keel length to 700mm has failed to revitalize the class, and this limit is under review again by RSD. My guess it will eventually be pegged back to something like 600mm, but with the horse long bolted from the stable, closing this particular door will be very difficult.
For the RG65 as a small M, maybe even a 450 mm limit would be better, allowing a RG65 to sail anywhere that will take an IOM.
As Dick routinely says, just my two cents…
One of the oldest boats of the class, the Palo de Agua, has a fin length of about 32 cm (according to the build instructions, from 2 mm aluminium sheet with sharpened edges), from the base of the hull to the bottom of the bulb. I would guess that a certain Buenos Aires boating pond, where it first sailed, had a depth of perhaps 35-40 cm. Although the class has now spread further afield, I can’t recall seeing fins much longer on any boat. The only requirement that I can remember is the “one fin/bulb per regatta”.
It’s difficult to imagine that none of the Latin American and Spanish sailors haven’t tried it, much less the French, who are usually particularly imaginative in rule interpretation.
As a matter of interest, how would you see boat designs evolving within the current simple rules?
Given the current (unlimited) rules, my initial thought for a personal boat was a very thin/narrow hull, easily powered and similar to an "A"Class catamaran hull relative to their narrow, wave piercing hulls, and with similar length/beam ratio. With such a narrow hull, the deep (currently unlimited ) depth keel would be required for stability, but limited bulb weight for displacement reasons would become a critical design decision/trade-off. Add deck mounted wide shroud spreaders similar to some of the normal sized off shore boats, and perhaps a flat aft under-body hull section. Rig and keel would be placed well aft with a very long forward hull section. :devil3:
Since the “A” Class relies on movable (crew) ballast, I’m not sure how well this design idea would work, but it is already done on the drawing board, sections are cut from 1/8" ply and it’s just a step away from a foam 3D version for looks and evaluation - just waiting to see if any interest here in the US as that size is falling in just under (and competing with) the 36/600 class - but it does offer the home builder a smaller project which is easier to transport rigged.
Martin posted: "I would guess that a certain Buenos Aires boating pond, where it first sailed… "
Martin,
Would you please say something about the origins of the class. I have been to many RG65 web sites but for some reason have not come accross details of WHEN, WHERE, and WHO made the first boats.
Thanks
… and I say the extremely minimal rules on the boat is a great thing.
yar
A translation from the Argetina class association
Welcome to the RG65 world, developed from the freesailing G-65 class of Juan Ghersi in the 50’s. It was an easily transportable boat by any means of transport and that, thanks to the initiative of an anthusiastic modeller, Raúl Landó, who installed RC equipment, changed from then on the experience of sailing an RG65. it is a small boat, 65 cm long with the nature of its bigger brothers, but easy to sail in any pond with a minimum water depth of 40 cm, a gentle breeze is enough to sail and large areas of water are not needed for regattas.
PS. There’s a fuller story in Spanish on http://www.rg65.com/mediawiki/index.php/Historia_de_la_clase_RG65
Maybe I should do a translation and post it on Sven’s usergroup
Thanks Martin!!
I didn’t realize the class was that old.
What pond in Buenos Aires? Parque Norte?
yar
Bruce - nice photos on the website ! In your posts - are the sizes optimum, or is that a printed size with just a web reference?
Yar, it’s the Plaza Urquija now known as the Plaza Ruben Dario. I’ve never been in BA btw. Anyway, here’s a photo on the Wiki link.
The article is copyright so I’ve contacted the holders for permission to translate.
Martin,
I am lucky enough to have been to BsAs, sailed RG65s there but not at this “pond”. It is small with fluky wind. But very public, and nice for that reason. There is another group that sail in a park by the city airport that is a great group of sailors. Some kind of weed has choked that water (keels get caught) and they are presently sailing in a large swimming pool in the same park. So go reports from there.
Useless information unless someone here might want to sail there.
Dick, Thanks for your comments. I need more clarity on your photo(s) question - please PM me.
yar
Yar, the wiki article translation has now been posted on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RG65SailboatsUS/files/
Thank you Martin:)
Just a correction to an earlier misunderstanding…
you are able to register for the international forum without needing a boat/sail number.
In the space where it asks for a sail number, just insert the word “none”. The moderators are looking at where subscribers are from, and if there is no current NCA (National Class Association), we are placed in the “No NCA” group - probably until such time as the class is recognized by the AMYA (here in the USA)
Thus, there is no reason for you not to subscribe to the international forum just because you don’t have a boat yet. They do encourage you to use your real name which is just fine to me.
Interesting to contrast the RG65 with the “MM” (ModelMaker) class devised by Vic Smeed in 1954. This was a conscious effort to come up with a half-size M. He did a quite popular and very handsome boat called “Water Baby” to kick off the class. The RG65 allows 348 sq in of sail whereas MMs were limited to 219. This would indicate that Lester’s concerns about a draft limit are valid. Actual draft is a pain to measure, although this can be mitigated for such a small size by making a waterproof box the depth of the maximum draft – if the boat floats it’s OK. Limiting overall height from deck to bottom of the bulb (as in the 36R class) permits measuring “dry” but leads to really wet boats.
One nice thing about the class is that a boat and radio gear will fit nicely in a Pelican 1700 shotgun case by sacrificing a couple of inches rig height and splitting the mast just above the gooseneck. This Pelican case, besides being strong and waterproof, is just under the L+W+H limit for “ordinary” checked baggage and does not incur the often horrendous oversize baggage charges on transcontinental flights. Spain in 2009, anyone?
Cheers,
Earl
http://www.rg65.com/mediawiki/index.php/Especial:Popularpages is a link posted on the user group. The majority of the articles are in Spanish or French, though many are well illustrated. They include articles on the design and construcion of boats that seem to be to the forefront of the class.
One point of interest is that there don’t appear to be cases of extreme keel length in any of these and bulb weight is fairly standardised at 500 grams. The following weights table from the French Aspara article might provoke some debate:
Basic Optimum
Hull 150g 130g
Rig 60g 60g
Battery 95g 40g
Servo rudder 40g 20g
Servo sail 40g 40g
RC 30g 30g
Ballast 500g 500g
Rudder and Keel 30g 30g
TOTAL 945g 850g
Displacement 865g 770g
I have been asked to add to this thread based on my visits to Argentina and Brazil during which I sailed with skippers from Argentina, Brazil and Chile.
The radio controlled RG65 developed in the first instacnse from a previous ‘free sailing’ model class of the same length.
a few years ago the rule was rewritten based on the then current Marblehead rule, and it has only the restrictions of max length, max sail area, max mast height. Earleir designs had mostly bermuda rig format with shrouds but more recently there has been a clear move to swing rigs.
I was given two sets of plans during my visits, and since then MMI has publsihed the following items.
May 2007 issue - JIF 65 chine design plans and build manual, with short history of class. Plans are for sale and downloadable free of website.
November Plans Guide - Puma build in timber article, with plans for sale.
December - New chine design by Charles Detriche as frames and reduced scale GA plan.
January 2008 - free plans for Tinker, as bound in to issue, deisgn has flat sides and rounded bottom panel.
I have acted as a registrar for completed boats in UK and set up a system similar to the Micro Magic class. This will also allow assessment of possible racing strength in due course.
I am sailing a Puma ( originally known as JIF2) and anoher is sailing in a fleet of Fiesta one designs, a class developed in Oxford based on same concept of 'half size Marblehead.
P J Sails of Poole, are offering a hull moulding, keel and ballast, and sails and fittings etc. to help intending builders.
I am on the point of retiring as Editor of Marine Modelling International but expect to continue to contribute a regular column on RC sailing in the magazine.
Hope this info is of help and happy to provide any more info on request.
Chris Jackson
Hi Chris
A great pleasure to see you on the forum!
Do you have a view on restricting depth?
The bug hit…plans made…from wood sticks to a planked hull.