FYI: I’m a Kiwi living in Canada… the ETNZ idea is to bring a little NZ culture into the frozen north and revel in the envy of this boat.
I have been building planes for over 25 years and have experience with fibreglassing, carbon fibre cloth and general construction methods tailored for lightness and strength.
Claudio’s plans and this thread convinced me that there is a lot more to this than I anticipated, although with the design work done, and the support of all you guys, a build doesn’t seem impossible… perhaps even a web build.
Let me know what you have and are thinking… I ship stuff from all over the world regularly so nothing is impossible.
Thanks a lot!
Goose
I thought it would be better to start a separate thread here rather than hijack Claudio`s most excellent treatise.
Basically I wanted to tell you that the general opinion is that the ETNZ kits are NOT great and there are other kits that will give you more pleasure in both the construction and sailing departments.
Your first decision is whether to go for a kit or a scratch build.
Standard advise is to find the local club and enquire as to what they sail in your area.
That will give you someone to sail with rather than owning an orphan.
I am part of the Wellington Radio Yacht Club and we were gifted an ETNZ boat which was put together for the local model shop by one of our senior skilled members.
This fellow spent approximately NZ$ 600 extra on this kit to bring it up to a reasonable specification.
Two weeks ago we sold it to a potential new club member for $300.
Just yesterday (Sunday) I insisted we give him his money back because IMHO I was not happy with the sailing characteristics of the boat and I did not want to discourage a new sailor. They look great but do not sail well.
If you want to fly the flag then have whatever you end up with decorated in the Team New Zealand colours.
I have a “Seawind” for sale on behalf of my recently departed friends widow but as mentioned earlier you need to make some decisions before you start to consider any specific boats.
Best of luck and I am sure you will have others here contributing more ideas. Cheers.
Wow! Thanks one and all guys… you are a wealth of information!
Ian: Thats dissappointing to hear the TT requires significant investment to bring it up to scratch, I agree… she is a great looking craft. I’m not too surprised, the same thing happens with aircraft, my last giant needing an additional $1k CAD to get in the air :crying:
Given that Giligan is local and has built a Claudio classic I am leaning towards a scratch build. Not only can I see it in the flesh so to speak, but this forum is overflowing with talent and the original designer which gives me confidence and a false sense of security lol
Bottom line is I want a big, impressive, fun to sail piece of Kiwiana to sail alone or with others… remember there is more water (lakes) than land up here.
Hiljoball: Thanks for those links and information, I will follow up.
Frank: Cheers.
Claudio: Argh! No more choices! laugh, kidding If this is a go, you and many others will be sick of my questions before it hits the water.
Giligan: PM sent, Yes please on your offer, thanks!
Goose
I will be delighted to offer my support during all stages of the construction. Since you have lamination experience, it will be easy to manage with the Hull. The Hull being the most simple part of the construction.
The deck will be a little more complex and, to avoid the excessive weight I got with the AC33, you need to prepare a Deck mould to.
I’m already to far, if you go for the ETNZ you need the frames reduced of the amount equivalent to the wood strip thikness you want to use.
Generally, I use 3mm thick Samba wood, much better and strong then Balsa.
Balsa tend to sag under pressure when sanding. This is due to the distance between frames of about 100mm.
If balsa is used anyhow, I suggest to brush the interior with epoxy alone or even with glass lamination before starting exterior sanding. This operation will adds strenght to the balsa .
I do that also with samba (obeche).
I spent a good part of last night pouring over the ETNZ plans and hours worth of research to begin forming a plan.
I have 15 years CAD experience and still use it as my primary planning tool… your CAD work is outstanding. That being said, is it possible to get a CAD version of the plans rather than me converting the PDF’s to CAD? Please let me know if this is possible and how to get them.
Thanks also for the tips on planking the hull, message understood.
One concern in this early planning stage is the sails. Does anyone produce a commercially available set for the ETNZ (with or without the artwork) as making sails per the threads I have read seems somewhat complex unless I get/make the forms to lay them up?
Thanks again for your quick replies and advice, much appreciated.
Hi Goose,
I could do it when my PC is coming back. It was working too much and the 8 months old Power bloc burn out. Waiting replacement and after 15days is not yet back.
I will transform the frames in DXF.
I do knows that Luca 71-5, in Italy, is making and sale the sails for less then 100€ for the AC120; you should get in touch via the english forum on this site : http://iacc120cup.altervista.org/Main0.html
Matthias, the webmaster, speak English and could acts as translatoro with Luca.
Making sails is not easy, you need tools/blocks and a lot of trials !
New to the forums here and i Don’t mean to hijack goose’s thread, but I figured since we are both new to rc boat building I’d post my question here.
Following the step by step that Claudio posted, I finished the mail mold of the ETNZ. I started the lamination process using 3.25oz/yard fiberglass. Laid up the first layer, waited about 1.5 hours then did the second layer. Two days later i put the third and forth layer on same as the first two. I waited 2 days and when i started to separate it from the mold i found it was quite rubbery.
Did I do something wrong? I have worked with polyester resin but not epoxy. Any help would be appreciated.
I have downloaded all the files from various places that I can see, but the sail plan and rigging plan is missing. I am trying to figure out how much mast and boom length I need etc…
The brand is Raka Inc. www.raka.com. 127 resin and the 350 hardener. Looking at there website the 350 hardener is designed to be “flexible”, so I guess that answers my question. :mad: To bad cause my pop has a ton of it.
Looking at another post you recommend West System epoxy. What type should I get? Do you order it online and if so can you recommend a US based website?
Because it’s 90f + here in the summer and rarely drops below 75f in winter not to mention 100% humidity year round, the West system 105 resin with the 209 or 207 hardener looks like the best choice.
Download the Alinghi SUI-100 plans here. The sail plans are included on that zip.
I didn’t find any rigging plans either but you will get a good idea on rigging placement by looking at the sail plans.
The reason I asked, is that those who use WEST for first time have been known to use an incorrect ratio of mixing resin and hardner. It’s a 5:1 ratio - but often the person will use 5 pumps of resin and 1 pump of hardener and wind up with “chewing gum” as a finish. WEST sells pumps already “PRE-CALIBRATED” so it’s one push of each pump to disperse the correct 5:1 (Resin pump is 5 times as much as hardener pump).
If you do happen to “ooops” you may be able to rescue the project by mixing up a “hot” mix - like 1 pump of resin and 2 or 2-1/2 pumps resin. I don’t recommend this, but have known of instances where the “hot” mix applied over the incorrect one will help set-off the wrong mix. Sometimes it can take a week or two, and leaving in the sun where it is real warm also helps kick off the hot mix. This idea will work for a r/c boat, but not sure I would trust it on a big boat in areas subject to loads.
Your idea of WEST products pretty much will cover all heat ranges, but the fast hardener may be too quick for really hot days - so suggest using the slow hardener even if it takes overnight to “kick off”. Better to get all the epoxy on the glass before it starts to “gel” than to try to work fast, and only get a portion on and spread out.
I am not familiar with RAKA formulated epoxies, although I purchase tape and glass from them.
There is a difference between “flexible” vs. “rubbery”. Almost sounds like a bad mix ratio - but only a guess. If you can imprint surface with fingernail or even fingerprints, I would suspect an incorrect mix. Also make sure it isn’t a laminating resin which stays soft for laying up another layer of glass. Maybe a thin coat of resin and then cover with cling wrap to get it to kick-off. Laminating resins usually don’t have a wax to keep resin from the air so it will kick-off. Just another thought/possibility.
as Gatorade mention it, the sail’s plans are included in the files of the various models, that can be downloaded from : http://iacc120cup.altervista.org/Main0.html, nevertheless here I put one :
Hi Gatorade
yes, you did probably something wrong !
All the laminations should have been carried “wet on wet” that’s mean that you should laminates the layers one after the other without time intervals greater than 1/2 hour. It is still tollerated, temperature permitting, to go up 1h1/2 while the resin it appears still sticking to the finger touch .
If you have being waiting 2 days for the third & fourth layers, (this is one mistake) you should had rubbed the surface first, with some abrasive paper or scotchbrite to remone the oxide film layer generated at the surface after the polimerisation the occurred after 24h.
Probably a second mistake come from the EPOXY mixing ratio resin/herdener - generally between 33% and 55% per weight of hardener depending on the brand/type.
Unless you want a football bol strenght , 3 layers of 3.5oz/yard² (110g/m²) would be sufficient.
Usually 3 layers, max 4, of 80g/m² glass are adeguate for this hull size.
I am leaning towards a scratch build. Not only can I see it in the flesh so to speak, but this forum is overflowing with talent and the original designer which gives me confidence and a false sense of security lol