Speed Week is open to any sailing craft, it has always been surprising that we don’t get production craft coming to see how fast they sail. Everyone who competes agrees that they learn a lot about maximising their craft’s speed potential. So it would be great to see an RS600.
A further thought that I had was that Bob Spagnoletti had developed a transponder system to place on the craft. It weighed a few ounces and was triggered to transmit when it passed through an infra red laser gate; all based on key fob technonolgy. In this way starts, finishes and sail number could be captured on to a PC, given a 100m course this should make the range problems surmountable.
We tested the system about 5 years ago by attaching to bicycles and cycling through the laser gates - it looked very promising. Anyone here interested in electronics and able to make up some circuit boards?
I know some of the WSSRC members well and will lobby then on your behalf. People such as Michael Ellison, who is also a keen AYRS member would, I am sure, be interested in supporting this experimental end of the spectrum which is the life blood of new designs and new full size craft.
Hey Ian, will you be coming over for speedweek then?
Edit; Damn just realised speedweek is in my first week of uni [:-banghead] [:-banghead][:-banghead]
For what its worth I’ll put my bit in.
As one of the main by-products of any venture like this is the discovery/development of new technology/materials/methods etc then the restrictions should be kept to the bare minimum and should only be necessary to define what a r/c yacht is :- basically an unmanned vessel.
One thing that would have to be a definite distinction is sail-powered versus wind-powered.
The only other criteria should be maximums for hull length and beam,this would allow for all sorts of rigs/sail areas and if the hull can cope with whatever it can carry, then so be it !!
Then there should be two classes,monohull and anything else.
Now here’s one from left field, should there be a rule regarding wind speed ? In all(?) other speed records the motive power is internal so this is not a variable but for sailing the power is external and is highly variable so it could be argued therefore that my boat is the fastest in winds of 25 knots only.
Other speed records also require that a run is made in both directions over the same course ; how would that rule affect your multi-hulls ?
Food for thought.[:-chef]
I’ve learned, That the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am.
(what am I doing here?)lol
I think the sail area limitation should probably be the only one. Certainly no limit on righting moment(beam).
We should do it the exact same way Nick does except less sail area.
Many multihulls including many foilers could easily sail both directions but if that is not a requirement on the full size course then I don’t think it should be here.
I also don’t think there should be any limit on how the wind propells a boat: softsails ,wing sails,kites, propellers–I believe that is true in the full size speed tests as well-but again, whatever is true for full size should be true here…
"[:-mouse]KOALA" To help you grow as a person I will tell you the following.[:-eyebrows](written in jest)
World Sailing Speed Records are set over a one way course.
For remote control craft the course will be 100 metres length.
Apart from the two sail area divisions there are no other restrictions.
The speed record council who`s website I will link to, govern the ratifacation of all claims.
If you wish to set a record for any restriced type of craft then all power to your elbow.[:-headache]</font id=“size2”></font id=“orange”> GO FOR IT!
As I have said in a previous post you will have bragging rights on this forum and my personal admiration for your efforts.
You may even have a World Record if your run is done under the strict controls of the WSSRC.</font id=“size2”></font id=“red”>
If you visit Nick`s site and look around you will see that thinking outside the square is what these crazy people do best.[:-idea]
There is an Australian based group looking for volunteers at this time to help with a most interesting project, if you have the time and the interest then I know they , unlike me will truly help you to grow.[:-irked]
Has it been determined if WSSRC will be allowing individual sailing organizations to certify their own results?
Hopefully they are cognizant of the fact that there will be someone, somewhere using GPS, radar gun, timed distance or whatever who will attempt to set or beat a sailing speed record.
[:-apple] <font color=“red”><font size=“2”>The World Speed Record Council</font id=“size2”></font id=“red”> has not yet approved the inclusion of <font color=“blue”>Remote Control Craft </font id=“blue”>under their management.
That is my purpose for stirring up some interest on this forum.[:-pirate]
Any record attempts made currently would be unofficial.
All should be encouraged to <font color=“orange”>“have a go”,</font id=“orange”> let`s see what can be achieved, that way we can apply some leverage to have model size craft officially recognised.[:-bonc01][:-turtle]
Point I was thinking, not to throw a towel on the idea, is a fact that we have problems getting people to travel even within the US for events, so the likelyhood that they would travel overseas is seemingly even more remote.
If there are no provisions for “local” or “regional” certification, in my opinion the effort for someone to travel to the U.K. is even less.
Back in 2000, the AMYA Open Class was presented with a U.S. speed record proposal, and we couldn’t get that off the ground. Some have offered (and posted) photos of a GPS device showing highest attained speed on an r/c iceboat and that method also hasn’t been embraced in the soft water boats.
If you truly want a wide a varied effort, think local certifications first, and get that in place. The Speed Week effort is a great idea, but how many will make the trip and participate?
"[:-mouse]KOALA" To help you grow as a person I will tell you the following][:-bonc01][:-bouncy]I am trying to stop laughing (at the thought of a kiwi making a jest)[}:)][:-jester]At the risk of appearing even less intelligent, may I ask a question?[:-idea]
For the purpose of these record attempts it seems that the wind direction is not a factor,nor is wind strength, true? (trying to think outside the square)[:-hot]
I am not likely to make any attempt myself as I can hardly afford a boat let alone pay the travel and accomodation expenses etc in advance that the speed council require.My little [:-piggy]bank is just about broke.[:(][:(]
Also,what is the difference for these rules between inshore and offshore ? Does inshore mean that in your case say Taupo would be the venue or would Cook Straight qualify?
A recent visitor spoke to me of a multihull being built in Bay of Islands with a 60m mast,heard anything of that?
Always willing to learn,
Ross
I’ve learned, That the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am.
(what am I doing here?)lol
[:-eyebrows]Hey there Ross
You are correct that wind direction and strength can be anything that you can sail in.
The Offshore records are for passage making,point to point, or over a time span,( 24hrs, 1week or whatever)[:-turtle]
Inshore records are the short course variety,
500mtrs or 1km for manned craft, 100mtrs for R/C craft.[:-toast]
In shore could be sailed anywhere, lake, sea, man made canal as in France, anywhere.[:-thumbu]
It is not necessary to travel to the UK or indeed any specific venue to attempt a record it can be done anywhere that is conveniant for the team. If it is a true <font color=“red”><font size=“2”>WORLD RECORD</font id=“size2”></font id=“red”> attempt then a commisioner appointed by the <font color=“red”><font size=“2”>WSSRC</font id=“size2”></font id=“red”> would need to be in attendance.[:-tophat]
My own craft is made from scrounged parts, such as broken windsurfer masts, crashed model Helicoptor blades, surf board foam offcuts and stuff from years of gathering that is around my workshop.[:-witch][;)]
Just try your ideas without radio gear or any expence. Then you will truly <font color=“purple”><font size=“2”>GROW</font id=“size2”></font id=“purple”> [8)]
Some more questions about this speed attempt.
1.Is the attempt over a standing 100m or a flying 100m or is the speed measured through a “gate” set somewhere within the 100m.
2.Every one seems to be limiting the direction of sailing to a reach, why not downwind given there is no rule regarding wind speed or direction,or water current.
3.Rather than putting a transponder on the craft,(even a couple of ounces could be critical it seems in an exercise like this) why not use a radar gun.We accept their accuracy by paying speeding fines,setting cricket bowling and baseball pitching speed records etc. so why not this? Go back to Q1,a radar gun would record the highest speed reached at any point within the 100m,not the average speed over the distance or a speed at a specified point.
4.If the only limit is sail area of 2 sq m and no limit to method of propulsion other than by wind source[:-slug][:-turtle][:-angel], how is my turbine powered design going to be measured? As the wind speed is always a lot higher than mast height on traditional designs my other design idea is for a 2 sq m kite attached to say a 50m line fastened to the mast.(Actually do I need a mast[:-bulb]-needs more thought–back to the drawing board.)[:-banghead]
Ross [:-disguise]
I’ve learned, That the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am.
(what am I doing here?)lol
1, Its an average over a 100m course, set between gates of some sort.
2, Downwind you can only sail as fast as the wind, on a reach you can sail faster than the wind.
3, see 1
4, Go for it! There are no rules…
[:-ghost] <font color=“blue”><font size=“2”>GO ROSS.</font id=“size2”></font id=“blue”>
Matthew has answered your currant list of questions so it is only for me to encourage those drawings to continue coming off your board.[:-yawn]
The concept of kite power is a major area for thought, my personal concern for a remote control application is controlling all that power and drive.[:-viking]
Keep those dreams alive and the questions coming.[:-tophat] http://www.dingbat.com.au/ http://www.monofoil.com
Ross mate, is this your lucky day, I have posted the link to the <font color=“green”><font size=“2”>DINGBAT</font id=“size2”></font id=“green”> site where you can sign up as a friend and keep up to date, or even give them a hand if you are in the Sydney area. [:-bonc01]
The <font color=“orange”><font size=“2”>Monofoiler</font id=“size2”></font id=“orange”> site describes another similar craft using a wing type sail plan.[:o)][:-clown]
Perhaps a more controllable version than your kite idea?
Do it NOW before it`s too late
<font face=“Arial”></font id=“Arial”><font size=“3”></font id=“size3”><font color=“red”></font id=“red”>Matt
<font color=“black”></font id=“black”>thanks for your answers,I understand the link between wind speed/boat speed etc. What I was hinting at was, how fast would a boat go downwind in say 60kn wind? Theoretically,60kn,yes?
So,is it easier to design a boat to be stable going downwind at that windspeed or on a reach at that speed?
As far as my question regarding the measuring of the speed is concerned, if it is taken as an average speed (ie calculated as the time elapsed to travel 100m from a standing start) then one very important design factor would have to be acceleration would’nt it? Also,as it is the average over 100m it would not really be the top speed achieved by the boat.
No one has answered my question yet as to how I measure my turbine blades to come within the 2sq metre sail rule.I have also moved on in my thinking[:-idea] and am looking at using an anenometor (how do I measure this) driving a propellor via a flexible shaft.This should perform equally well regardless of wind direction and changes in wind direction over the course, it may even go faster into the wind than down. In fact it would be able to tack,sail around in circles,sail in reverse and sideways and outpoint any other boat on the water.[:-bulb]It might even go [:-spin]!! On a reach would not have problems with righting moments etc as the hull should be upright all of the time.I would also only need one channel r/c for steering purpose, although I might need some mechanism/clutch/gearbox to disengage the drive so that the thing doesn’t sail off into the wild blue yonder and become a round the world speed attempt as well.
Frankly I still have a bit of a problem with this being a sailing speed record.As I asked in a previous post,shouldn’t there be at least two classes, one for sail powered and one for wind powered.What I am thinking of I certainly couldn’t class as sail powered.
I reckon that if there is to be a fair dinkum record there must be fair dinkum rules.
Ross.[:-disguise]
I’ve learned, That the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am.
(what am I doing here?)lol
[:-cowboy]<font size=“2”>Ross</font id=“size2”>, a couple of clarifications are in order to answer your questions.
Speed records are measured as the time taken to traverse the course distance which in our case is 100mtrs. You are allowed a flying start of any distance you like.[:-turtle]
Propeller driven craft are not eligible for a <font color=“red”><font size=“2”>sailing</font id=“size2”></font id=“red”> record.[:-weepn]
Your anemometer powered craft would run out of propulsion as it reached the speed of the wind, <font color=“blue”><font size=“2”>would it not?[:-</font id=“size2”></font id=“blue”>[:-banghead]
Interesting discussion. I discussed something along these line with Nick Povey a few years ago when the Monofoil models were starting to behave properly. The difficulty with an organised event is that models are much more condition sensitive than full scale craft, this being due to the extreme wind gradient close to the water. Some of the Monofoil runs resulted in a dynamic climb through the wind gradient with the model ultimately reaching an altitude of ten feet or so! A class based on a fixed area of (say) 1 square metre would result in a decent size model and would reduce this problem. As for the arguments over “wind” or “sail” power, why not take a leaf out of the full size speedsailing world and make it such that any propulsion comes only from the wind and, since we are considering radio, a judges assessment that no control function on a given model provides drive in addition to control. Wind turbine boats for example should not be excluded since they work the air/water interface just like any other sailing vessel.
Sailrocket is a rather more accessible design than Monofoil. Although Monofoil will probably be simpler to sail the analysis necessary to achieve stability is fairly mind-bending and my impression is that the Sailrocket guys were after a relatively simple and quick route to the record. I don’t want to stick my head too far above the parapet by declaring our design performance but the measured speeds for the model, after appropriate scaling laws have been taken into account, imply that 70 knots would not be unreasonable.
How do I post a still image here? Would some images of the various monofoil models be interesting?
Jon ,pictures would be great; look under the “Problems,Solution’s ,Comments” section for a topic on posting pictures. I think I saw one there the other day. Otherwise e-mail Chad.