Doug - the more caveats you put into this, the less likely any records will mean anything. Keep adding the “what if’s” and the “oh by the ways” - and everyone will be setting their own speed records to what advantage?
Speed is speed - and if you want to quantify it by sail area, not a bad idea (horsepower?) - but pretty soon I envision I might have the fastest, monohull, with traditional ballast, under 1100 sq inches of sail area, with a jib but without a spinnaker, and weighing less than 8 lbs. but more than 4 lbs. and painted red, with white sails and green corner patches. If you have the same, but with red corner patches - Hey ! You hold a record too.
NOTHING would prevent seven IOM’s to give it a shot, with sail number 29 getting the nod as the fastest IOM - which is “class speed” - but why inject a lot of other baloney into a “speed equation”? There are more than one Hobie 16 that took part in full size boat record attempts, and sure - one of them has the record for “that class” - but then let each class winner race for overall speed record.
Run what ya brung, or go home - but no whinning that a specific class wasn’t set up for your specific boat. If you want speed trials for boats within a class, then let the individual class sponsor a trials. I see nothing wrong with holding and awarding a first place, fastest boat to which ever Victoria was fastest, but are we looking for fastest boat design - or fastest boat design of a specific class? The object (I think) is to find a specific design that is the fastest - not have an event where every participant goes home with a ribbon. If more than five of the same “CLASS” of boats are entered, let them be awarded the “fastest of the class” - but don’t dumb-down the entire fleet with 55 classes just so everyone is a winner.
As I stated two posts ago I’m for 4 classes based on sail area . In each class there should probably be monohull and multihull records.
The previous post was an ATTEMPT to define a monohull to answer Peters questions.
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”> Doug Lord Feb 17, 2004 7:55 AM
Mono’s an multi’s seems like a good idea as well.
<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>
My response about more defining rules was based strictly on your above quote. Please advise if I am wrong in quoting what you posted.
In the meantime, here is a link to the 2003 Speed Week results.
I have read what is being said on the subject and I still feel there should be three classes. Monohull that fits into an already existing class(IOM, marblehead etc) and multihull that fits into an already existing class(F-48, mini40 etc) and a open class with length resriction only.
This is different to what I have posted early. The idea of this is to still make it possible for anybody interested in obtaining a r/c speed sailing record to not have to spend tens of thousands of dollars on development etc. It means that the average Joe has a chance. Just design the right boat under the right class.
Peter
If you look at the real records page, there are “Boats”, there are “Boards” and there are “Kite Powered” - and the only other difference is the sail/kite area.
Perhaps Ian could follow up and simply “ASK” what the organizers feel would be appropriate for r/c records?
Guys, Guys, Guys
Go back and reads Ian’s suggestions,
Forget classes - just get a radio controlled thing that floats with a max sail of area of 2 sq m. forget mono or multi hull - anything goes - I was at Ian’s place yesterday and he showed his ideas to me - as I say forget number of hulls - just get the sail area within 2sqm and go for it! The key is - it needs to float (ha ha) and have motive power from sail or whatever (not propelled) no more than the size mentioned.
Watch out - another kiwi makes it happen -
Under your monohull “rule,” Would an unballasted monohull that uses assymetric lift (think kite-board with spars in place of wires) and hydrofoils (or not) be illegal? It seems that such a craft could fit the “spirit” of a monohull class, but not your rule
Just a question to make things a little more difficult:-P
If you are looking to actually make this happen, “top speed” rules should be simple. Limit to either maximum sail area or maximum overall lenght or a combination of both.
Graham, interesting question. If you used kites on an unballasted monohull you would probably want the lines to the kite attached at deck level perhaps even a little leeward of deck level so that the kite didn’t impart any heeling moment.Now if you did that under my “attempt” to define a monohull it probably would be illegal and it might even work! So there goes my attempted definition out the window! It’s only by carefully analyzing the possible"definition" that a viable monohull class can be defined so good thinking.
I think whatever it takes from a thinking standpoint should be spent on this so that the classes I mentioned earlier would be possible in both multi and mono divisions.
The sail areas I mentioned: .5sq. m ,1sq. m , 1.5sq.m and 2sq.m or unlimited encompass all the existing classes. For instance, 1 sq. m would include all F48"'s with a standard rig and 1.5 sq.m would include F48’s with a spinnaker.
Similarly 1sq. meter could include one meter’s with spinnakers(or without).
And the.5 sq.m class would include very small boats within the range of everyone to build/sail. For instance a CK Trainer with a spinnaker could fit that class as could many others.
I wouldn’t think you would want to put limits on that correspond directly with any arbitrary class rule rather establish limits that are more or less evenly “spaced” and allow for boats to be “souped up” for a speed record.
Hydrofoils on mono’s or multis should ,of course, be legal but the problem on a mono would be defining a hydrofoil so that the foil displacement at static is some small percentage of the lift that it is supposedly able to develop; the rule has to make sure tht a mono with foils on each side doesn’t use the BUOYANCY of the foils for stability. Dynamic lift is ok; staic buoyancy is not . I know from experience that if you placed a well designed hydrofoil 1’ to each side of a monohull with no buoyancy other than the foil it would not work without movable ballast.Without ballast the mono with foils 1’ outboard would just roll over BEFORE it could accelerate to foiling speed.
Have to give more thought to defining a monohull but it’s worth it because there is a lot of speed potential there even though they will never be as fast as multi’s(ah, I should know better: never say never!)
I think really we should forget all existing classes. All the existing classes are constrained in that they have to go round corners. Speedsailers dont even have to be able to tack. If it kicks off and a few perpous built boats turn up that are alot quicker, who the hell is gonna sail an IOM, Marblehead, F48 anything else for that matter?
[:-turtle][:-witch][:-turtle] As mentioned in the <font color=“red”><font size=“2”>SAILROCKET </font id=“size2”></font id=“red”>heading in the [:-weepn]<font color=“blue”><font size=“2”>PUB</font id=“size2”></font id=“blue”> [:-weepn] I have some news for anyone interested in <font color=“orange”><font size=“2”>SPEED RECORDS</font id=“size2”></font id=“orange”> I am now in contact with the speed council who have asked for my comments on the posibility of establishing a catagory for model yachts.
I have a letter drafted which I will post here after it is recieved by the council. I could tell you now but then I would have to kill you.[:-paperbag][:D]
In the meantime I would like to encourage all sailors to try to set a speed run course of 100 metres and time whatever it is you own. No prize, no money, no glory, just FUN
and the BRAG rights on this forum. Totally Unoffical.
I found this photo on the Seahouse site.
It is of “Sailrocket”
As this project is getting near to hitting the water (and the 50knot barrier) soon, it must be a rc model!
http://www.speedsailing.com/default.htm
If you would like to spend some time dreaming or viewing others dreams then check this out. Many models if you can spend the time.[:-bigeyes2]
If anyone would like to attend Weymouth Speed Week we would certainly welcome you - there are plenty of opportuniites for volunteers!
In 2002 we timed a 2 metre model over 500 metres, and some very good times it achieved.
Our timing equipment could be made available or we could arrange to run a 100 metre course during Speed Week - if there were enough interest and some people available to run the course. On a quiet day (i.e less than 15-20 knots) I envisage we could make a RIB available.
Nick, I’ll take you up on that! I dont much fancy putting my 1m cat on the 500m course but if 100m could be set up that would be great…athough I might have built somthing bigger by then!
On another tack, can I enter speed week with any boat? I would like to see how quick i can get my Rs600 to go on a reach, not after any records, just interested as apparently we’ve been clocked at 25 knots before (it was blowing a force 7!).
<font color=“blue”><font size=“2”>[:-angel]
Nick you little ripper!</font id=“size2”></font id=“blue”>
Man what a buzz, an invitation to speed week for remote control craft.[:-jump2]
Nick my letter to John Reed at the Speed Council seems to have fallen down the back of his desk. He did acknowledge receipt and said he would come back with a reply on his return from holiday.(If its easy,rattle his cage for me)[:-sleep]
My request to the council was to setup a category for remote control craft in two classes, up to 1 square metre and up to 2 square metres sail area.
The only major change was the course length to be 100 metres.
It seemed to me to be such a shame that nearly all of the man carrying craft were developed using models which were themselves never rated for speed on a compeditive basis.
As models in all their various forms are the main love of those on this forum, a large number of us would be keen to see the performance that can be extracted from a properly designed and constructed model.
[:P][:-turtle]
I have just inserted the document I sent to the <font color=“red”><font size=“2”>SPEED RECORD COUNCIL</font id=“size2”></font id=“red”> for all to view.
sailrocket.jpg