R/C Sailing Speed Records.

[:-apple] Is there anyone out there interested in speed records? [:-jump2]
I am currently awaiting a reply from the speed council regarding the criteria for establishing radio controlled sailing speed records. Most of the manned attempts have used models to test theories and designs and it seems a shame to not have any record of the speeds achieved.
I have a few thoughts going on in my own head which I would like to try, based on some design principals published by the team at SAILROCKET.
I have asked the sailrocket people for permission to use their design as a basis from which to work, but to date have no reply.
I most proberly dont need their permission but it was a courtesy thing to avoid any bad feeling. Its not like I am going to upstage them or make a fortune from their ideas.
I will post the reply from the speed council so we may all see what we have to do to set a <font color=“red”>R/C World speed sailing record </font id=“red”>of our own.[:-turtle]

Do it NOW before it`s too late.

May the SPEED be with you…

Good luck…and post pics! I’d luv to see that…if you could make a movie as well…that would be great!!


if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it!


With my new found skill I will insert a link to Mr Smith`s site which will keep you busy for hours.[:-drunk]

Mr Smith's Amazing Sailboats - Model Craft [:-banghead] [b]Bugger[/b], that didn`t work, one moment please, just talk amongst yourselves.[:-clock][:-dunce]

Mr Smith’s Amazing Sailboats - Model Craft
Any minute now[:D][:D]http://www.geocities.com/aerohydro/othercrafttext2.htm[:-hot]Try that[:-graduate]
Do it NOW before it`s too late.

[:-alien] <font size=“1”><font size=“3”>,Man</font id=“size3”></font id=“size1”> who is a demon computor whizz? [:-blindfold]

I will not confess to how long its taken me but this should be the link to the sailrocket site.
Check it out! Cool Eh![:-bigeyes]

Do it NOW before it`s too late.

Ahh dammit, you come up with this just after I’ve finaly converted my cat from a sail steering straight line speed machine to somthing that actualy tacks, I’ll have to change it back now!! [:D]

Luff 'em & leave 'em.

I’d love to see speed records recorded and maintained.

I think you would need to have classes…

For example - If I were to take a full sized boat like a Hobie 18 or something. Hang some ballast off the side in the form of sandbags hanging from the trap and then set up a sail trimming and steering system that used an RC transmitter to work the onboard autohelm I could set some really impressive speed records. But that should be clearly out of bounds as it is not a true RC craft.

So you would need some clear rules as to what constitutes an RC boat. You might want some size classes like 1 meter and under 2 meter and under and so on. You may want to have monohull and multihull classes.

and so on…

  • Will

Will Gorgen

I think the Weymouth races are conducted in Sail Area classes aren’t they? But for models I think length with unlimitd SA makes sense.
The small Garmin GPS’s are ideal for recording max speed but speed over a course would require more labor. Maybe there could be “speed regatta’s” once a year or so at a good location so that all the records could be attempted at one place probably keeping the costs of verification a lot lower.
But in the meantime strap one of the $119 Garmin’s on your boat and sail in a gale a see what you’ve done when you bring it back in!

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>But in the meantime strap one of the $119 Garmin’s on your boat and sail in a gale a see what you’ve done when you bring it back in!
<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”> Fried it most likely! Dont think the cheapo GPS’s are waterproof…

I think classing by sail area is the way to go, You could make a really fast model if you used some kind of kite/lifting rig (the way alot of the big speed sailers seem to be going), provided you could keep a bit of it stuck to the water it dont really matter how long you make it, it will be just as fast, limiting SA is more of a challenge. Say 0.5m^2, 1m^2 and 2m^2 classes, then perhaps an unlimited also.

Luff 'em & leave 'em.

The cheapo Garmin I have is theoretically 100% waterproof but if you were concerned you could put it in a plastic bag or?
I’ve got a think about it some more but you may have a good point about sail area classes instead of length.

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

[:-bouncy] John Reed, secretary of the
World Speed Sailing Record Council has come back to me with the news that currently, there is no official category for radio controlled craft, but they would be happy to consider establishing one. He is sending me a copy of the rule book and asks for comment, which I take to mean, they would be pleased to receive some guidence. <font size=“3”><font color=“red”>This is where you come in.</font id=“red”></font id=“size3”> Already in the recent posts you have contributed
your ideas on the type of rules you see as being necessary to govern such a category of SPEED RECORDS I would like to encourage further discusson to get the best advise to pass on to the council to establish this new class of record.
My own currant thinking is UNMANNED SAILING CRAFT! (less than 2 square metre sail area)
No other restrictions or conditions. [:-bulb]
I await your thoughts [:-glasses]

Do it NOW before it`s too late.

I agree with the idea of maximum sail area 2 square metres but I think there needs to be categories for multihulls and monohulls. The ruling to determine what constitutes a multihull would have to be worded precisely.
To just say a multihull is a vessel that has more than one hull doesn’t work.
Maybe wording something like this would work:- a multihull is a vessel that has extensions at +/- 45 degrees from the main body of the vessel.
This wording is only meant as an example to prevent loopholes, as all designers push the rules as far as possible to gain that tiniest edge. I’m sure that none of us would like to spend the time building a boat to fit into the monohull class and get beaten by a boat that is really a multihull.

I think there should be classes at .5sq.m (775sq. in.) ; 1 sq. m(1550sq. in.), 1.5 sq. m(2325 sq. in.) and 2m(3000+sq. in.) or unlimited. That keeps SA’s in the range of many existing classes. Mono’s an multi’s seems like a good idea as well.
Mono’s could be defined as ballasted models with no buoyancy external to the single hull(other than fins and bulb(s)). Multi’s as unballasted models with at least one hull plus buoyancy external to the one hull required for static stability.

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

This is my no means intended to cause an arguement. With your desciption of what may determine a monohull. If you were to build a boat that had a horizontal beam protruding out from the main hull 4 inches either side supporting hydrofoils be deemed as bouyancy?
Your idea seems good, but what determines bouyancy?

As I said in my original post the wording needs to be precise so there can be no misunderstanding on whats what.

Hydrofoils add stability, would that then mean they assist bouyancy as well?
Just debating the idea that’s all.

While I would like to see some unlimited machines, I think that is pretty unrealistic to allow unlimited categories. For example, the current world speed record holder - Yellow Pages Endeavor - could be fairly easily fitted out with some car batteries, some autoehlm equipment and an RC radio that would control the whole thing. Then you drive down the beach alongside the boat as it is sailing and control it with the RC gear. That would qualify as an unmanned record in the unlimited category. But I don’t think we want to compete with that! Even my previous example of doing the same thing with a hobie 18 would be pretty unfair.

I think we would need to define just what is meant by an RC sized boat. I think the best way to do that is with a firm upper limt on sail area. How much sail area is on the 2 meter multihulls? Add a small margin onto that and I think that is a respectable upper limit.

Something we have not talked about is the course. In full sized boats it is a 100 meter course (I believe). Perhaps a 50 meter course is more appropriate for RC boats. Maybe even smaller than that…

  • Will

Will Gorgen

<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by wgorgen

How much sail area is on the 2 meter multihulls? Add a small margin onto that and I think that is a respectable upper limit.
<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>

Will - can’t use that - as a 2 Meter multihull has unlimited sail area. It “DOES” have a limited height of mast, but add in possible asymmetric headsails, and there virtually is no defined sail area limits - nor would one want them. Also, don’t forget some may try solid wings - and/or multiple masts !

A one time, the former Open Class Secretary (Jose Torres) had lined up some speed record ideas and one was to keep the length of the course to a limit that allowed for indoor, swimming pool trials. Since he was at Dartmouth, I think his original plan was to get some “Barn Fans” (52 inchers) along the length of the pool, and run trials that way - with foam bumpers at the end. Unfortunately, nothing ever happened, and he went on to carbon fiber bikes and such. Again, seems a perfect item for the Open Class at AMYA to sponsor/host/hold.


What is the mast height limit on a 2 meter multihull?

  • Will

Will Gorgen

  1. RIG
    5.1 Masts
    (5.1.1) The overall mast height (windvane excluded) shall not exceed 2800mm ** above the average deck level. When there is no deck (catamaran), the measurement must be done from a line drawn from the average decks level of the multihull

5.2 Other Rigging Rules
(5.2.1) No part of the rig shall extend beyond the overall length measurement lines when the sails are held along the centerline of the multihull.

** This would translate to 110.23 inches - or - 9.186 feet!

Comment: I certainly would not restrict <u>ANY</u> boats to their hull length, as even the F-48/Mini40 allows for Spinnakers for speed trials. Unless you want to time and record boats based on their class rules, there should be no limitations on hull, mast or rig design or size. It is fine to categorize the efforts into sail area sizes, but I don’t think there should be a maximum limit.

Secondly, does it really matter if the hull is mono, proa, cat, tri, other? If a monohull can carry unlimited sail area, why create an artificial rule? We would be looking for fastest speed - but not by class or type!

Since there was a recent move afoot to introduce a 3 Meter multihull class, perhaps overall length could be 3 meters or less, and let whatever size boat, carry whatever size sail area it can - and still stay upright.

I could see a foil vs. non-foil class - but moving ballast versus non-moving ballast, is again, in my opinion, just another rule that serves little function except to give the other guy a chance at setting a record.

Speed folks ! and as few rules as possible. (IMHO)

<font color=“green”><u>Added by edit: </u>2 Meter Class Rules can be found on this Forum under NEW CLASSES, if anyone is interested.</font id=“green”>

Just have 3 SA based classes (0.5, 1.5, 3m^2?) with the only other rule being it must be free floating. Course should be say 100M with 25m acceleration and deceleration zones ether end. R/C control only, no trained hamsters at the helm!

Luff 'em & leave 'em.

[:-captain] Some great ideas comming forward. Perhaps some guidance would help to avoid going off on a tangent, although I have no more influence than any of you on the final outcome of the WSSRC. Dick nailed it when he said that we should not get bogged down in mono, multi, or whatever.
This is not a class based category, or an event, it is an Outright Speed R<font size=“3”></font id=“size3”>ecord of who can go the fastest on water powered only by the wind. <font size=“2”><font color=“red”>NO LIMITS, NO RESTRICTIONS.</font id=“red”></font id=“size2”>
My thoughts on making the title simply UNMANNED was that a free sailing craft rather than R/C could be used if desired.
Making the only rule a maximum sail area keeps the size down to model proportions dealing with the concept of <font color=“yellow”><font size=“3”>YELLOW PAGES</font id=“size3”></font id=“yellow”> under my thumb.[:-crazy]
MAN, what a buzz that would be!
The course for manned craft records is 500 mtrs
which IMHO should make our course 100 mtrs to enable control and visual contact at all times.
KEEP DREAMING, it`s all great fun.[:-hspin]

Do it NOW before it`s too late.

Monohull: a model having a minimum of 30% of its displacement in ballast.Foils that could add stability when the boat gets moving shoud be legal provided that they don’t add significantly to the righting moment of the boat thru buoyancy.
“Significantly” would need to be defined.
An example of a monohull that would potentially be extraordinarily fast FOR A MONOHULL would be a canting keelboat that had a hydrofoil on a forward daggerboard and one on the rudder with a “wand” altitude sensing system.The canting keel strut would utilize a flap to develop additional righting moment when the boat was on foils. Such a boat could potentially approach"normal"(no foils and no PBS) multihull speeds but would be way slower than a multi foiler.
Thats why I think there should be a monohull category: there is a whole unexplored area of speed using hyfofoils on ballasted sailboats.
Multihulls would not be required to be unballasted…

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing