Queensland Titles....(maybe worlds??)

MultiHulls General Discussions (MultiHull/MultiOne)
1

In August/September 2005 the Queensland Titles for r/c Multihull’s will again be hosted by the Queensland R/C Multihull Owners Association. This post is being made now so as to try and attract overseas r/c multihull sailors to this event, with the idea of it then also having “World Title” status.

I will be sending personal e-mail invitations to the BMMA as well as the French.

It seems to be(and I maybe wrong) but the Australian Fleet is the largest regularly sailing fleet in the world atm.(mini40 class)

I do realise that there are more registered boats in the UK as well as in France, but from information that I have seen and from entries and photos etc. the numbers aren’t turning up regularly to events.

We could right now put 12 boats on the water, and I would expect that that number will increase to around 20+ by August next year.

I have received by e-mail interest from some top IOM sailors that they are looking at/going to get into multihull sailing after the IOM worlds. I’m hoping that if World status was put on to the Queensland Titles for next year, that they may sped up there involvement in the class and also have boats there.

The location of the Titles will be the Sunshine Coast University. There is a large lake on the premises. It allows for very good courses to be laid, and the lay of the land takes local knowledge out of the picture. The closest structure that could possible make an influence on the wind is about 100 metres from the lake.

I would ask that the multihull sailors who frequent this forum add there opinions, as well as if they would have any interest in sailing this event.

Peter

2

When that was posted by me, it was a “local” rule which has since been lifted. I apologise for the comments relating to the two channel rule that I had thought was a standard mini40 rule. It had been added to our local club prior to me joining and as it appeared on the set of rules I was given, i was of the opinion it was an original mini40 rule.

Peter

3

Just a side note.
If there were F/48 rule boats that entered I’m sure that the length/width rule could be altered to allow these boats, after all we are only talking about 20mm(3/4")so it isn’t going to make that much difference, if any. This would be however the only part of the mini40 rule that would be altered in my opinion.
As the class (multihull) isn’t officially recognised by the world governing body(I.S.A.F-R.S.D) the event can’t then be officially classified as a “World Title”, but the winner can claim to be the World Champion.

If there was enough entries from the 2metre class, obviously there would also then be a Title to be sailed for by them also.

Peter

4

Doug

Please specify what particular parts of the mini40 you don’t understand or want classification on. I have now read, and fully understand how the rules are written and what is permitted.

The only part of the rule that was added by my club prior to joining was the two channel rule which has since been omitted.

I don’t want this topic reduced to an arguement over rules and one world rule, this has been argued to abnorsism for far to long now.

Peter

5

The rule as I can see it should read something like this

A multihull is made up of two or more hulls in whatever configuration, provided the entire “vessel” is able to fit through a square measuring 1220mm X 1220mm.

The bows of all hulls must be fitted with a elastomeric “bumper” which is to be not less than 10mm thick and will be included in the overall length.

Materials for hull construction is not limited.

There are no minimum or maximum weights.

Maximum sail area will be .9square metres, spinnakers are allowed, but there area will be included in the total sail area

Although the number of rigs is not restricted, no more than 2 masts may be used on the vessel at any time

The mast(s) shall be included in the measured sail area if at any point along it’s length it measures more than 20mm

Controls of the vessel are restricted to AM or FM frequencies

“Boat Cams” are permitted provided they are only used to relay pictures to a website and not used by an entered racing team. The exception to this would be for medical reasons

No structure including sails shall extend beyond the extremeties of the vessel when held down the centre line

Movable ballast or keel bulbs are allowed and are not restricted in design or weight. Provided that they meet other mentioned rules

The measurement proceedure for sails and mast(s)(where applicable) shall follow the standard mini40 equation
Main
L=shorter of leech and luff
M=foot measurement
M1=1/4 height measurement
M2=1/2 height measurement
M3=3/4 height measurement
D = Measurement at deepest section of the convex curve on the main foot

Jib
L1=shorter of the leech and luff
J=foot measurement
J1=1/4 height measurement
J2=1/2 height measurement
J3=3/4 height measurement
E = Measurement at deepest section of the convex curve on the jib foot

Each vessel may have a “team”, provided the entered skipper is in control of the vessel at all times while racing

That’s all I can think of at the moment I’m am sure that others would like some rules added or clarified

I can e-mail the sail measuring calculator to anyone that is interested. All that is required is to have the Excel program on your computer.

Peter

6

Doug

The main reason for including a mention related to boat cams is to prevent the possiblity of one being used when you consider that a “team” can be enter it eliminates the chances of some-one using a cam and achieving an advantage. Some people have problem seeing marks at a distance and a cam could aid them around a course.

I think that classification should be there, if the option of using two masts on the one vessel is removed, then it can’t be considered in the first place.

I hope that it can happen. It would be a tremendous boost for the class world wide.

Peter

7

Two comments, and then I’ll go find and post our comparison list (with reasons for suggested changes).

Comment #1: By size, the MultiONE boats that fit the beam restriction can also sail as an F-48/mini40 as there are no minimum size references. In fact, if prevailing heavy air, it might be possible for a MultiONE to overshadow the performace of the big brothers/sisters with it’s smaller and more optimium sail area.

Comment #2: Since ISAF RSD does not sanction the multihull classes - Nothing prevents you from calling the event a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. All you need to do is send invites - if none attend it can still be called a world event. You do not need ISAF sanction if it isn’t a recognized class. You will get “heat” no doubt, and a few nasty letters, … so simply remind them that when the class is actually recognized as an international class, then perhaps we might let them dictate what an event is called. Until then, they are free to control all the monohull classes they want.

<font size=“1”>(part of the reason we F-48 owners may align ourselves with the NAMSA organization and why the BMMA isn’t affiliated either!)</font id=“size1”>

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Dick
I don’t see any reason why Multione can’t enter. They fall in under the rule.
I personally wouldn’t put world champion status on it unless there was a overseas entry.

Thanks for your input, it’s all welcome.

Peter

9

Peter, I agree that it would be a tremendous thing!
So I implore you not to add any new rules! Technology is advancing at such a rate that some may indeed use a video camera on their boat: it can be done and successfully if some problems are worked out.The potential for sailing with video is great! It is not now against the rules anywhere; don’t complicate the situation by taking it upon yourself to add restrictions that aren’t in any rule anywhere.
As far as the mast issue goes the US is a big place and none of us here have done a great job promoting the F48; that could change and under the F48 rules multiple masts are legal. What does that matter? The original idea was for an unrestricted class and it kind of got a little restricted. You and I know that a two mast arrangement probably won’t work well, at least in lite air, but whats the harm in letting someone try?
If you make this “Open Mini 40 rule” inclusive nobody has to change their rules and everybody can particpate. Think about it!
You have the chance to make a contribution to the world of rc multihulls second to none…

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

10

Ok I’ll remove the one mast resriction.
The “boat cam” can be used on the boat,but only to beam back to website’s for use by the public and not my the team racing.
The exception to this would be for medical reasons, i.e short sighted etc

Peter

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Peter, thats great progress!
Yo’re so close to going down in history as the man that brought everybody together; don’t blow it with new rules-ones that no multihull class anywhere has.
You’ve almost pulled off an amazing thing here-lets see what Lemke says about the mini 40 measurement and please lose the new rule…

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

12

Doug
It sounds like you want a boat cam on a boat that you may race?
The problem with this would be that if you are watching the cam there is no way you are going to be able to see what is going on around your boat. The port and starboard incidents that would create is going to cause more trouble than the cam is worth.

It wouldn’t be possible to have one set up to see every possible angle of the boat.

Probably the worst thing that I could have done is mention the things to start with, but in saying that I’m actually glad that I did for the above mentioned reasons.

Peter

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<font color=“red”>edited by Mod…Dan
promo</font id=“red”>

My point was that you are taking it upon yourself to limit the technology that can be used under UNRESTRICTED rc multihull rules; there is no current restriction on the use of video camera’s and that looks like it might be an area for the logical progression of technology: there are many problems to solve first ,though!
To add a new rule under the circumstances of trying to bring everybody together is an unfortunate idea.You are so
close to having a done deal for the first time in rc multihull history; don’t try to change what is LEGAL under every rule at a time like this…

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

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<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by lorsail

… <font color=“red”><font size=“2”>none</font id=“size2”></font id=“red”> of us here have done a great job promoting the F48<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>

Hmmmmm … thanks Doug! I guess then <u>you</u> better go dig out the comparison list of differences that you saved, and post them here. Seems it is another public “slap-in-the-face” for my past efforts at class promotion. WTF ? And you want me to support you now? Ha !
<hr noshade size=“1”>
Peter - forget those self-serving comments. The posts sound just like the ones of support I “used” to get. Run the program with the rules you want. Forget Doug - as he speaks only for himself - not the Class Owners Association.

<Good on ya>* for considering the event.

<font size=“1”>* That’s “wannabe-Aussie talk” for WAY TO GO !!!</font id=“size1”> [:D]

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I am writting this post now to ask the moderators of this forum to watch the posts that appear under this topic.

I feel that this idea/plan is biggest thing to happen in world r/c multihull and to that end do not want to see it lost under the usually crap.

Could you please moderate this topic heavily and “remove” unrelating posts as soon as possible.

I know that I can’t tell you guys what to do and I’m not trying to do that, just don’t want this lost as I said before.

I am firm in not allowing “boat cams” to be allowed except for the reasons already specified. Somebody has to make a stand with technology.If this is the only thing that is not allowed, why is there a problem?

People have been sailing r/c boats for years without them, it is something that I feel doesn’t improve racing in the slightest.

Peter

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The provisional dates for the “World Titles” will be during the week of the 15-21 August 2005.

These dates are out of school holidays for Queensland Australia, and 1 month prior to the IOM worlds.

The locations for both events are quite close. I will post photos etc. of the location shortly, and will also have a link off the clubs official website.

Peter

17

The link below will take you to a site that shows the legal Australian channels.

I have posted this to help out those that may be interested in attending the “world titles”.

http://www.rcyachts.net/Frequency%20Chart.htm

I hope this help.

Peter

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Peter - since I don’t seem to be promoting the F-48 class (according to Doug) - why don’t you go ahead and plan to use the Mini40 Rules?

It ssure makes sense that those are used, expecially if your fellows are already used to them. As far as from here, there really isn’t much anyone wold have to change from here to meet your suggested rules. I will be glad to give you a personal email to detail them if you like. As far as Microsail boats - let Doug build them to meet class rules for a change if he wants to race. Everything else he has built doesn’t fit any existing rules, so why let one individual restructure the rules by which you intend to sail?

Do keep in mind the issue of different radio frequencies, as I see this to be your major challenge.

Will step back and see how much modification is necessarry on my F-4 to meet your suggested rules. Probably only the sail area and perhaps the use of a uni-rig instead of forced head sails. But, then again, if necessary, I can whip up a set of sails to comply.

19

There will be a requirement to have entries for this event in no later than the 15 June 2005. The reason for this deadline being two months prior is so the organising committee are able to properly map out the racing schedule.

It is going to be a massive exerise. We have radio issues to sort out and accomodation to set up etc.

Fortunately the location is very close to a holiday mecca for queensalnd so there are plenty of choices from camping to 5 star resorts.

I know that posting things like this is very early but when you consider that this is the first World Title for r/c Multihull’s we want to make sure it goes off without a hitch.

Peter

20

Ok guys here we go. After hearing from the BMMA the suggestion is that any r/c multihull will be eligible provided the boat has a valid measurement certificate from a national body.
Obviously this means that mini40 is mini40 and F48 is F48.
If you have a boat that measures under the particular rule it is eligible.
I fully agree to this idea.
The other thing is that all entrants must have a current membership to there national authority for insurance purposes.
The other alternative would be that enteants that are not currently affiliated with a national body could join my club and be covered that way.

Peter