Queensland Titles....(maybe worlds??)

MultiHulls General Discussions (MultiHull/MultiOne)
21

<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by Peter _Birch

… this is the first World Title for r/c Multihull’s …<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>
Hi Peter

Sounds like great fun, but there is a detail to mention about calling your event “World” anything. The International Sailing Federation (ISAF) requires any event with the word “world” in its title to be an officially “sanctioned” event. If it isn’t, then any sailors who race could easily run into a problem when they try and enter any other (ISAF) events. Because they have attended a “prohibited” event they become unable to enter any ISAF events no matter how minor. This stuff is found in Appendix 2 to the Racing Rules of Sailing, dealing with the ISAF eligibility code.

Lester Gilbert
http://www.iomclass.org/
http://www.onemetre.net/

22

My questions disappeared. Where do I get a valid measurement certificate for my F-48"s and does an AMYA membership meet your insurance purposes

23

Peter, You may be interested to learn of how we worked around the <font color=“purple”><font size=“2”>“WORLD”</font id=“size2”></font id=“purple”> problem with our regatta.[^][^]
I am proud to tell you that I am the <font color=“navy”><font size=“3”>INTERGALACTIC CHAMPION</font id=“size3”></font id=“navy”> of the AC15 class. [:-captain][8D]

Do it NOW before it`s too late.

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<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by Lester

<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by Peter _Birch

… this is the first World Title for r/c Multihull’s …<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>
Hi Peter

Sounds like great fun, but there is a detail to mention about calling your event “World” anything. The International Sailing Federation (ISAF) requires any event with the word “world” in its title to be an officially “sanctioned” event. If it isn’t, then any sailors who race could easily run into a problem when they try and enter any other (ISAF) events. Because they have attended a “prohibited” event they become unable to enter any ISAF events no matter how minor. This stuff is found in Appendix 2 to the Racing Rules of Sailing, dealing with the ISAF eligibility code.

Lester Gilbert
http://www.iomclass.org/
http://www.onemetre.net/
<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>

Hi Lester -

an opinion from the sidelines…

With Peter’s race requirements, I can see that having to be a member of one’s national authory may change things a bit, but also a view that Appendix 2 uses the phrase “ISAF CLASSES” - and awful lot.

It is my understanding that ISAF and ISAF-RSD and AMYA (at least here in the U.S.) do not recognize any multihull class as an ISAF-RSD sanctioned or recognized class. I also understand that this is also true with the U.K.'s BMMA which completely independant from the British National authority.

In my correspondence with Jan Dejmo, years back, it was discussed rather lengthy, and I failed to see how ISAF can have any authority of a group of boats that they don’t even recognize as a class?

Again, for the U.S. - before we can even call ourselves an AMYA class, we need a minimum of 20 members that are AMYA members. Then, to be recognized on an Internatioanl scale, the ISAF-RSD has a requirement of a specific number of boats/or/countries in order to be recognized by ISAF-RSD as an “official ISAF-RSD International Class” - becuase that was the crux of my correspondence with Jan - ISAF-RSD refused to assist us in promoting and establishing an international class, because we were not ISAF-RSD recognized, but at the same time ISAF-RSD was trying to tell us “how” to run our organization, what rules we “had” to use, etc. etc. - all of which left our heads spinning about the two-handed way in which we were being dealt.

Now, I can see - as noted above - that if National Authority memberships are required to race, or if it was an “AMYA Open Class” event trying to use the name of a World event, that the class would be ISAF recognized in some form or another and would be bound by the Appendix 2 requirement. To compound things, I will need to take time to look at the list of ISAF listed “competitors”. My guess is that very few r/c sailors have registered for this designation.

Again, I am simply viewing from the sidelines, and am wondering when the word “world” became a trademarked word that can only be used by approval of ISAF - especially if ISAF doesn’t “recognize” the so called class?

I suppose one could call it the Solar System Championships, the Whole Earth Regatta, or the Regatta of the Galaxies if looking for a different name. In fact World Multihull Meeting might also be OK !

Strictly my personal opinion voiced here, of course.

<center>[:-paperbag]</center>

25

Peter
I guess you will have to call it the “Universal Title” unless that breaks some other bull^**^ rule?

Thanks
Don
Vancouver Island

26

Ok to answer some questions and make my own point of view.

Hoj
The answer to both your questions are
The AMYA’s insurance will cover you provided you are a member at the time of the event.
A measurement certificate can be supplied to you by any recognised measurer. If it means that there isn’t one available to you, your boat can be measured prior to the event by me before the racing begins.
It is recommended that competitors have current certificates to accompany a entry, but sometimes this can’t be helped.

Lester
I fully agree with the comments made by Dick on the subject of the ISAF.
They don’t recognise the class, so there authority shouldn’t come into it.

I think that we will however call the event the
INTERCOUNTRY MULTIHULL CHAMPIONSHIPS
(I hope the presenter isn’t drunk)

27

Actually, I think this “world” thing goes back to the ISAF/Naviga battle. Specifically, if you race in a Naviga sanctioned event you are banned from ISAF events. This is most likely left over from the cold war mentality where many of the Naviga organizations were in eastern europe. (For the uninitiated, Naviga has competing rules of sailing, parallel classes of boats equivalent to the M and IOM, power boat sections, etc.)

It also reminds me of the AAU/NCAA track and field battles of years ago in the United States which eventually required the US Congress to step in.

So what we have is <u>an</u> organizational turf war<s>s</s>.

Doug Hale

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The title - <font color=“blue”>International Multihull Championship</font id=“blue”>
Sounds great to me. And it doesn’t contain the “w” word.

Tom
Seawind #80

29

Here is the key phrase from Lester’s words of caution:

“Because they have attended a “prohibited” event they become unable to enter any ISAF events no matter how minor”

So… no matter how fair you think ISAF is, this is how it could affect you later. Proceed with caution…

The Other Matt

30

Matt
Just a query. If ISAF aren’t involved, and they haven’t got the slightest interest in recognising r/c multihull’s as a class, what possible right have they got to restrict competitors.

It makes it very hard for us to make an event ISAF sanctioned when they don’t wish to discuss the requirements of multihull’s. Multihull’s need to be sailing under slightly different courses etc. to monohull’s to make the racing more exciting for spectators. The ISAF has been approached and unless the courses sailed and the measurement structures are in place that they approve they don’t want to recognise the class.
They also state the there aren’t enough countries sailing these boats to warrant holding a “W” Titles.
It seems a bit rediculous to me that they don’t want to recognise us as a class but in the next breath there is a possiblity that entrants maybe “blackbanded” from other events.

Brings back memories of the New York Yacht Club.

Peter

31

i agree that we should be able to either get ISAF approval to become a recognised class and then hold the event legitimately OR run an event that isn’t recongised and not have to deal with a banning from future events. I would personally love to see the world’s best r/c multihull sailors congregate for an event. it would give people the opportunity to silence their critics or be silenced. either way it would improve the class and give everyone the opportunity to benchmark their designs against the best and hone their boat handling skills against some genuinely tough competition. this will be of the greatest benefit to those who may be isolated from large fleet sailing.
Richard

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Bump… and some blatant self promotion. check out my website

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~billett

33

Just an update on the “worlds” idea for 2005 here in Australia.

I learnt a few things over the week-end, and have decided not to pursue the event.

I can see however that in the not to distant future a world title will be held for the mini40 & the 2 metre multihull classes.

Peter

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Don’t just leave us hanging Peter,what did you learn?

Thanks
Don
Vancouver Island

35

I finished and sailed the US-1M today (fast) and am going to start on the three, no four F-48’s. Was planing to be there.

36

while at the IOM Queensland Titles I spoke about the multihull idea with state and national committee members and the general concensus is that the “help” that would be needed to run the event wouldn’t be forthcoming. The simple reasons for this is that we aren’t as yet nationally recognised and the IOM world’s are one month later.

This is very disappointing as the interest around the world is there. This was explained, but the response was negative. The multihull club would require support in the way of officials etc. and that support would need to come from volunteers who sail other classes. At this time in Australia the multihull’s aren’t popular.

The other thing that worries me is the fact that not to many members of the multihull club itself are supportive of the idea. When the idea was first raised with them the general response was why not. The next time I raised the idea and stated that there is interest around the world, there opinion changed.

The bottom line to this is that, the multihull’s will have a world championship, but not in 2005. My apoliges to all that were interested in the event, but the logistics of trying to organise and run the event without support here makes it impossible at this time.

The positive thing for the Australian multihull scene is the numbers of IOM sailors who are interested in trying the multihull’s after the world’s have finished for the IOM’s, or if they don’t make the Australian team. The profile of some who are saying there interested in getting into them is large here. Some of the member’s of the last Australian IOM, as well as some who will probably make the team for next year.

This will improve the multihull class incredibly in this country. I can see Australian titles being sailed for them in 2006, and hopefully with worldwide interest and lobbying the ISAF multihull’s will get the international recognition that they need. To this end I will/have been working with the BMMA and the US multihull authority to re-write the rules of the mini40 to bring the mini40 and the F-48 under the same set of rules.

Peter

37

Peter - thanks for the detailed response. I too was wondering what caused the change in plans, and hoping it wasn’t the issue of “prohibited events” from ISAF.

[:-thumbu] This information sounds very exciting - especially for us up here in the U.S. Being able to entice monohull sailors to participate is a great accomplishment if you and your fellow “multis” can pull it off. Please keep in touch on how it goes. I am specifically interested in how you deal with the issue of “Buy versus Build” - given the very limited number of multihull builders in the world - let alone in each of our respective countries.

As discussed in the past, not too many builders left any more, and for those that do build, having close by competition is helpful. Up this way, I heard that Ian Sammis is tooling up some new molds to allow the lower/upper building of the main hull, two floats and an incorporated cross beam as a 2 step mold, rather than his intensive multi-mold process he has been using for the past year or so. Based on photos you have shared, my feeling is his process will probably emulate the method you are using.

Whatever the case, more interested persons will (hopefully) translate into more boats, which will start the process again.

I am greatly appreciative of your willingness in the past to share information, and even more so in seeing boats actually sailing. Wonderful for you and your fellow multihull sailors. Best of luck in the future development of this multihull r/c program down there.

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Hi Peter,

Was good to meet you on sat at Carbrook.
Reading your last post, could you please remove any reference to me or my company entering RC multihulls. I am not sure how you came to think this but it is not true.
Whilst i am fascinated by your multis & would love someday to have a sail, at present i do not have the time to pursue them.
I wish you all the best with them & hope to see your Championships up & going sooner rather than later.
Cheers
Brad Gibson

39

Peter;

Too bad for 2005…but; I hope there will be an 2006…as I was really willing to come in 2005…2006 then…even better and more time to save money [;)] and to “upgrade” the thing…

Wish you all best anyway.

Wis

_/ if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it! _

http://wismerhell.esmartdesign.com/index.htm