After 30 years of real sailboat racing, Catelina 27, Ericson 35, J-24. My knees and back have said enough. With a new knee, rolling around a J-24’s deck is not out of the question. My son, still active as a Pro lives in SF and suggested I look into RC Sailing. I live in Ventura CA but have not seen any RC activity. I know nothing about RC, have not built models since my days as a Control wire flyer in the 60’s, but I am an electrical engineer, retired and think I know some about Sail boat racing…so How about advice to a complete beginner.
Well welcome to the Forum, the Hobby, and hopefully something you will follow through on as it will be something you can most certainly enjoy for a long time to come.
Start with the www.AMYA.org as your first stop on the way. The good news is that when you go there and look up the clubs in your area you will find quite a few… also a couple more in SFO area and more to the South in SAN and a few more scattered all over the place. You hit paydirt for geography.
Take some time, many of the clubs have websites which will give you all the info that you need, and then look at the classes of boats that are sailed nearby. That is always a good way to start. Decide what you want in the way of a budget, boat, size and it almost works itself out for you.
Everything you have learned from big boat sailing transfers over including the rules with only a few minor changes… models use 4 boat lengths from the marks for overlap instead of 2 because it makes it easier to judge particularly at a distance.
Whether you want to race or just sit and peacefully enjoy your boat, (and there is something to be said for both) you will find all the help you need on either the AMYA, Local Club or here.
Advantages of the models… you are almost always closer to a pond than you are a lake. You get in and out of the water a lot faster, easier, and with a great deal less effort. The cost is WAY less… One thing about the models that is matched by the real boats is they hold their value equally well. You never really buy a sailboat, you only put down a deposit and get your money back when you sell it. A small “entry” level boat will cost around $250-$300 complete and building is usually not difficult at all. If you are looking at a larger boat you might find one already built, used, or built to your specs. The prices go up accordingly and can run from several hundred to a couple of thousand.
You will probably find a high percentage of the guys sailing models do or did sail big boats, so you will be right at home.
I have never met someone that tried R/C sailing that didn’t completely enjoy it… so have fun with it and never worry about asking questions.
welcome to the hobby( or should i say insane aslum)
i would agree with larry , goto the amya website. and download the contruction manaul. you can also get some plans off the internet. build your first boat. and while you are doing that. you can look around to see what other people are sailing. then build that. while you are learning how to sail the first one. a us 1 meter is a boat that is big in the states. while in canada we sail mostly IOM class boats. you will find that the classes all come with a different price tag. you can get a small (actaul boat ) for under $6000. but i know of a few rc models that come over that price tag
good luck and good sailing
cougar
long live the cup and cris dickson
I second Larry,
You might check the www.amya.org website, lots of info about clubs aso…
It’s rather difficult to recommend a boat, many classes, many boats.
I think you have 2 options:
-
buy whatever you want…and have fun
-
get a boat which a near club is using…this include racing…one design aso…(Victoria, Seawind, ODOM, IOM, USOM aso…many many…)
—Of course it all depends on your budget, you have some relatif cheap boats out there, but IMHO a complete boat with electronics, batteries and charger will cost about 200-250U$…cheapest. (Victoria) (self promote a bit here, the Seawind being longer a bit more [;)])—
So again, as Larry said, check the Amya and then decide…
We’ll be hereand ready for you…and before I forget, WELCOME ABOARD.
-Wis (aka Laurent)
<font size=“1”>_/ if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it! _</font id=“size1”>
Seawind
MicroMagic #JPN 01
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<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by cougar
welcome to the hobby( or should i say insane aslum)
i would agree with larry , goto the amya website. and download the contruction manaul. you can also get some plans off the internet. build your first boat. and while you are doing that. you can look around to see what other people are sailing. then build that. while you are learning how to sail the first one. a us 1 meter is a boat that is big in the states. while in canada we sail mostly IOM class boats. you will find that the classes all come with a different price tag. you can get a small (actaul boat ) for under $6000. but i know of a few rc models that come over that price tag
good luck and good sailing
cougar
long live the cup and cris dickson
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My son, Jeff Thorpe, taught a few seminars on match racing with Chris a few years ago, he is a great sailor and nice guy. Since Jeff campagned Solings thru two Olymic cycles I think I might try that class. To bad there isn’t a J-24 class.
Thank you for the advise and welcome, I’m reading everything I can find right now.
here’s a link for Solings made by Victor Model:
http://www.victor-model.com/soling1m.html
-Wis (aka Laurent)
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Seawind
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There are two types of Soling Classes, and being in SoCal you are in the backyard of the largest group of the larger of the two… that being the Soling M. It originated in Santa Barbara and is raced primarily on the West Coast. It is a rock solid boat, and one of the easiest models to sail… but as with all of them… more difficult to sail it well
The Smaller Soling is a 36" model and one of the least expensive models and subsequently the most popular class (determined by the number of registered hulls) in the AMYA.
The Soling M was made to sail in the stronger winds and waves along the coast and is quite at home there.
This is the link to the AMYA Class page for the Soling 50.
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by cougar
you can get a small (actaul boat ) for under $6000. but i know of a few rc models that come over that price tag
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Cougar -
Can you please go back and edit your above post? I “believe” you meant to say $600 - but you typed $6,000 which might scare the hell out of a lot of new people to this sport/hobby. Especially when you then post you know of boats “over that price tag.” [;)][:-weepn]
If/when radio control boats start costing over $6,000 - I think it might be time to look toward a real boat and one that you can ride on for that amount. In fact, there are many big boat classes into which you can enter for less than $2,000 - or even $1,500 ! [:-smirk]
Dick Lemke
F-48 #US-06
MultiONE #US-06
Class 3 Landyacht #US-196
Minnesota, USA
dick
i put that post in because of an Idiot friend who went out and got a marblehead . he spent 6K on the damm thing. but he got a nice radio . charger change of sails. but he paid $6000 for it. i can get a snark for $3000 brand new. I would not suggest this to anyone. go and get a seawind. the whole kit will cost you $700. or go and get a epoch. that will cost you a little more. but not that much more.
you CAN get into the water for less than $1000. and dont let anyone tell you you need to have this item.
trust your self. even if you dont know anything about model sailboats. common sense will tell you what you need.
steel
i would have loved to have been in that corse. I have met cris only once in passing. and he was very friendly. i would like to met him someday again. just to share a cup of coffee. he must have some great stories. and yes people he is my favorite sailor. NOT DENNIS CONNER not paul cayard. peter holmgren should listen to cris. they might have won race 3. inho cris dickson is the best skipper on the planet
cougar
long live the cup and cris dickson
Now I in no way wish to start (or restart) a debate about how much or how little boats cost, nor the pros and cons of building versus buying - we’ve been down that path many times before, and we all know its horses for courses and you get what you pay for.
But just for your interest or amusement…
The hull of my current IOM project has cost me USD$173 in materials, and that includes the carbon fibre for the keel fin (with enough left over to make a few more). It also includes one mast (A rig - round 11.1mm) and boom set, and home-fabricated deck fittings and gooseneck (non-ball bearing), and rudder stock. It also includes consumables such as paint, sandpaper, thinners - but granted I had a lot on hand from prior projects, including all of the epoxy and glue needed (quite expensive I admit) and the keel bulb.
It does not include sails and running rigging, nor does it include radio gear. Sails will be home-made, and I know that not everyone has the skills, interest, time, tools or inclination to do this.
Nonetheless, the completed boat, once I’ve finished the rig and sails, will have set me back $250 plus radio equipment (radio gear and rudder servo on hand - but new sail servo).
So it can be done.
And hey - I’m the first to say that this sort of project is not a money saver. The time-cost is huge. I (and other nutcases like me) do own-builds not to save money - purely for the challenge and enjoyment of the project itself - and the double enjoyment when your creation “lives”.
It isn’t everyone’s cup of tea - but if you are that way inclined, have the skills, the workshop and the time - it’s worth considering.
Steel_knee - IOMs are raced in the LA area, and despite their reputation for expense, it doesn’t have to be that way. And despite the fact the most winning boats are state-of-the-art professional creations - they are not ALL. A good homebuilt boat in the right hands can be comptetitive - and you just buy whatever parts you cannot make to standard (such as a good keel fin for example).
I’m not pushing IOMs to the exclusion of other boats - just mentioning it as an option for your area. Like you, I come from years of racing the big boats, and got hooked on IOMs because I could take responsibility for the entire project from design to the water, and still race in a competitive class.
Muzza
Thanks for all the info fellows. I see that a couple of the clubs near me race Soling M’s so after I finish a Motorhome road trip I’m taking for the next two months I plan and visting them and look at and talk about the Soling. Since I did some limited sailing in a real soling it should be a kick.
Another question, I see I can buy either a kit or a all-ready built boat from Victor, since I would like to get started quickly, is buying a already built boat considered poor form, and what is the quality of factory built boats. As an aside, for a few years my son and I had a fiberglass speed shop for one design boats, called “One Design West”. We would take an old tired J-24, turn it upside down, reshape keels and rudders, refair hulls with a slurry of Microballons and gel coat, then re gel coat entire boat longboard sanding from 50 to 1500 grit. Also did a few Solings and Stars. Combination of the late 90’s resesion driving a lot of middle income people out of real competive sailing, and the emergence of the Melges 24 as the one design of choice for hotshot sailors (the melges class rules were so tight we couldn’t do anything to them) killed our business.
steel
you can do what ever you want. I own 2 victor kits. and lovem, my fav. is australia II the boat is fast spins on a dime and is just pure fun to drive. i have had offerd to sell it. even had a trade for a used IOM. but no way. by the way. MUZZA is right. a home built IOM should cost you less than a grand. mine did and mine wins. we all talk design but like a friend pionted out. graham bantock wins. but is it his design. I dont think so. he can sail a brick fast. just his design meens he does not have to work as hard. build you own IOM. i do
cougar
long live the cup and cris dickson
If your desire is to race and sail with a local club don’t buy or do anything until you spend some time with the club members.
The advice to buy the class that the locals sail is sound; even more sound is to spend some time talking and watching to find out the “inside” story on what equipment works and what doesn’t.
For example there is a vast difference between the Victor Soling 50 and the boats being used by most regular racers. Similarly, buying the same brand of radio that is used at a club means you can switch/borrow parts with others easily and quickly.
Perhaps the saddest thing we see at out local club is someone interested in r/c sailing who has done “research” on their own and shows up at the pond with a boat and equipment they had been told was the “perfect” starter boat. Usually, these people find out that their new boat wasn’t sailed at our poind or that he had been misinformed and had bought a boat eitehr hoplessly uncompetitive or complicated beyond the newcomers skills and needs.
Take your time, listen and learn and wait before jumping in. Good luck.
Cougar,
As a moderator, you should be more carefull about making disparaging remarks about the top designer of hulls and fittings in the IOM and other classes in Europe. Yes, Graham Bantock can sail a brick fast, but he also can sail all of his designs <u></u>very<u></u> fast. I had the pleasure of dining with him last Saturday and sailing with him on Sunday in a two fleet event of twenty boats which he won, and your suggestion that he maybe is not the designer of his series of IOM’s does not bear scrutiny. Please retract this soonest, in this public forum
Ralph.
ok
i retract what i said above? i never meant to say that graham bantock was not a good designer. I do have several of his designs, and they are fast. but what i was getting at was the fact that he is a good sailor. but just becasuse graham says this design shoudl be the faster of the 2. i dont think joe public can make that a fact. buying a bantock boat will not make you win. it will make you competitive, and that is all. after a few IOM design you will see what you like. it may be a bantcok boat you like. or you may like a cameron smith boat. what i was trying to get at was the price. money does not = wins.
ralph if you look though my other posts you will see i hold graham in high regard. he got me started in the IOM division. I even look forawrd to someday building his “KITE” if i can ever get a set of plans.
sorry for the mix-up but i geuss my posts are now being picked apart I think i will stay away for a bit
cougar
long live the cup and cris dickson
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by isisagoodun
Cougar,
As a moderator, you should be more carefull about making disparaging remarks about the top designer of hulls and fittings in the IOM and other classes in Europe. Yes, Graham Bantock can sail a brick fast, but he also can sail all of his designs <u></u>very<u></u> fast. I had the pleasure of dining with him last Saturday and sailing with him on Sunday in a two fleet event of twenty boats which he won, and your suggestion that he maybe is not the designer of his series of IOM’s does not bear scrutiny. Please retract this soonest, in this public forum
Ralph.
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Sometimes Cougar’s explanation can be misunderstood and I am sure it is the case here!
Furthermore, his spelling isnt the best (just check around)…He probably just messed what he wanted to say…as usual I’d say!
We all know here that SAILSetc are making fast boats and we all know that Graham is a good designer…
and before I forget…WE STILL HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH…that said…cheers and happy sailing
-Wis (aka Laurent)
<font size=“1”>_/ if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it! _</font id=“size1”>
Seawind
MicroMagic #JPN 01
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Hi I agree with everyone that suggests you visit the locl club first. Anyone that visits our club will get to sail a couple of boats and can sail with us a few times. We sail the four international classes as well as a couple of “others”.
There is nothing worse than having a boat you can,t sail, goes to slow or everyone knows is the boat so and so got rid of! And I would reccomend a Marbelhead…fast, easy to handle and lots of competion around, but if there arn,t any around go for what you like.
Again thank you to those who gave advise. I did visit three clubs, talked to members, tried various boats people were kind enough to let me use.
I bought a barely used ODOM, factory built. Now trying to get used to sailing it. Will need new sails shortly, trying to get my son who works at Quantum sails to design me a set.
By the way, could not get my old password, never got a reply from this formun so changed my handle from steel_knee to steelknee.
sorry but never received anything
Cougar mentioned his intention to get started on building a Bantok designed Kite IOM. It was at least a year ago that good friend Mike Hughes provided me with a skiff-decked Kite hull, keel fin and rudder. From Carr Sails I ordered the three IOM sails. From GBMY I ordered the keel bulb, masts, booms and all other appropriate hardware. An RGM SW280 and a JR programmable radio completed the ?investment?.
Mike Hughes? work with fiberglass is flawless. He did a fine job of joining the deck and hull. Keel fin and rudder line up perfectly and fit tightly in place. The only modification I took on was to fill in one of the two cockpit hatches and then install on the other hatch a single rim and ?snap-on? cover. I will not hesitate to recommend to anyone a boat kit made by Mike Hughes. Incidently, Mike is licensed by Sailsetc. to produce the Kite.
The sails from Carr show quality in both design and craftsmanship. The SAILSetc. spars and hardware are both downright clever and nicely finished.
What I want to say here is that our manufacturer/suppliers have certainly come a long way to the better. And, if Cougar picks out the Kite to build it makes for a good-looking boat.
If there is anything negative to say, it would be regarding the IOM Measurement Specs. They are almost nit-picking. It was months of staring at parts and trying to decipher the rules before I got started on putting things together. Assuming that this boat survives the Measurement Ceremony, I suspect that my next IOM would assemble a lot faster. Part of the problem, like with many other folks, is that I do not have handy a test-tank or an accurate weight scale.
Something else to mention? At the local Home Depot they now sell lacquer-based spray paint. It is made by Rust-O-Leum and is available in only gloss black and gloss white. Why lacquer? Because it dries hard. Hard enough to wet sand with 600-grit and then rub-out with compound so as to correct runs, overspray, dust and the occasional suicidal bug.
Rich Matt
AMYA 004