Any feedback? Any views?
I was struck by John’s comments about the sense of community. That’s something that has been special for me since the first sight of a Bobabout hooked me on Footys. I contacted Brett, and started what has turned into a real friendship. As others got involved, the friendships expanded to include others…even those from such foreign and strange places as Northern England where they speak a strange dialect!
I know there are Footy owners who are missing that sense of community because there aren’t enough Footys out there yet for much local presence. I suggest that if you know of one, encourage that skipper to be part of the international Footy community by joining this forum. This is one of the really wonderful things about today’s technology, and I’m pleased and priviledged to be part of your community.
Bill H
"If I were to offer instead the Kittiwake rig… sails, aluminium mast, mast tube, wood booms, bowsies, ‘Stren’ rigging thread, ss hook wire, etc. plus instructions as a rig package would that be of more interest? This rig will work on the Bob-about and similarly laid out hulls too. "
I think, in response so that, the more accesible you make the fotty class the better for aiding its growth, and if it is very very easy to build a first bout, it is very very easy to a) have a fotty to add to that map and b)get into footys
Hi Chris? I guess you’;re a lot younger than some of us - possibly still running on your own teeth. This class needs young people. Any of your mates interested?
Now that Ian H-B has more or less perfected the Mk. II Internet course, we can go ahead on developing the Internet scoreboard.
Last time of asking before we start to produce final specs. Anyone got any good ideas or strong reservations?
Is the proposal to have one type of internet course or two?
One with a surface centre line and one with a submerged centreline. For time trials do we think times on both types of course would be comparable?
Graham
Perfected? one test by one man.
Ian must be a god:)
Things to try,
floating course as before but with detachable /clip on start line below the leeward mark.
Calvins solid course.
Ians course with the line to windward of the leeward mark (Grahams idea)
Discussion of the cost/complexity of various course options. original course is much cheaper to build and much easier to cart around.
More options will come up as we explore the ones above.
We need more people to try these various setups before commiting to one design I think.
Still need to discuss actual trypes of racing to be held…has a bearing on course design obviously.
(time trials,relays? fleet racing,what size fleets?(length of line) )
I think Ian agrees that there still is work in equalising the drag of the 2 bottom markers of his course? Ian, comments? do you think the course you built was “perfect”?
I think we are just at the start of this discussion myself…come on people,build and try out course designs and have your say in the future!!!
Ian must be a god:)
Funny you should say that as well as many others Brett.
Maybe not a god but certainly a bloody star,:king: :propeller and so modest with it.
Seriously though there is much more work to be done and then there is the decision on fleet racing using the internet course.
I have stated before and I will repeat it again, my opinion is, “the internet course is for solo timed runs only and any fleet racing should be done on your normal club course.”
Fleet racing should NOT be used as any sort of measuring stick amongst fleets from different locations.
It serves NO useful purpose.
Solo timed runs on the other hand are an easily measured and recorded standard by which any skipper can compare their performance against others.
My course was certainly not perfect and the modifications are just beginning.
Although god like, I am not the ultimate authority and my design is only one interpretation of the challange and there are others far more clever than me who have yet to publish their designs.
This GOD has spoken…:diablo:
As I perceive it the weakness of the timed run is that it very rapidly turns (as it has done) into a speed record attempt. Unless you are THe Best, there is no point in posting a result. I don’t think the man in the Austin 7 special would have posted a lot of results with Sir Malcom Campell around.
So pactical evidence shows it does not work as a means of bringing Footy’s together. If you don’t like racing between fleets over a standardised course, how are you going to do it? From what little feedback we have, relay racing has received more raspberries than the average pavlova. Or should we just roll over on our backs and abandon the whole project?
As a wise man once said, ‘Do not let the best be the enemy of the good’.
maybe that is true that no one will post times unless they are fast in a general sense.
But what if an event was held on one weekend across the world and everyone mailed in there results without knowing anyone elses? then you have a chance and a result is a possibility no matter who you are.Joe average might have had perfect conditions and Joe Hotshot a drifter.This brings Joe Average right into contention for this one off weekend event.
Also over time handicaps can be calculated for individual boats…then you have a chance to win on handicap and not on straight out best time.
keeping a record of the fastest times ever is only one thing.
And I agree,if there is not more interest shown soon then I will abandon this as well.Though I like the idea of an internet match race with my mate up the road Ian:)
I cannot do any testing until christmas ,in the christmas holidays I will be able to sail daily with the internet course and get an even better feel for course dynamics.
Relays may not have been a popular idea so far…but the result would be real and comparable just like an individual trial.Also the course would not need a start line,the existing style of course could be used.
If you do it one wekend a year, it doesn’t really add an awful lot of interest! Further, as Brett effetively points out, the result is a lottery.
The advantage of fleets IN SERIES is that local variations are damped out - at least to some extent. IF the idea catches on, the ability to create sub-leagues should enable everyone to find other ‘enemies’ with whom they are happy.
Handicapping requires data. At the moment we have none. I suppose you could start off with everyone equal and use something like PYS but this would put a lot of hotshots off - or cause them to become crafty: loose this in order to win the big one. How often do you revisse the handicaps? In order to provide reasonable damping it has to be a fair number of races. Will interest persist long enough?
I can’t see that a relay is any more or less credible than anything else: just less interesting for those taking part.
What I do find curious is the view that the Internet course (which I personally think is very clever) is unsuitable for fleet racing. I know that it’s small but so are Footys and Footy fleets. A two metre line is three boats longer than the biggest Footy fleet ever assembled outside Southwater. In essence it is perfectly good sausage course with the unusual advantage of (usually) giving true beats.
You can race in this manner 50 times a year if you want!
you can have series as well.
As for interest …well theres not much,I am putting in a fair ammount of effort here for little in return right now,just as you are Angus.Unless others get involved we are wasting our time.
As another getting involved…
Construction wise I will make another plug for the ‘on course’ balanced start line idea because it does not lengthen the course as would a beyond leeward mark start line. With the submerged centre line I am starting to think that maybe it would not be so bad for fleet racing, in itself, not abandoning my thoughts on club level inertia as expressed elsewhere here.
Another perspective to make solo racing/time trials fun…
I spent alot of time in the free flight aircraft world. A very popular form of comp. for the scattered masses was/is the ‘postal comp.’ Here a single weekend or a longer period up to a month is chosen and all times flown with a certain model or type of model are collated over that period (this being typically snailmail collated). After the period a winner is announced and placings presented. That format has been going on for years, decades even and is as popular as ever… proof of concept in action I would suggest. Of course conditions are not comparable but over a year things can even out to give a creditable annual winner and placings.
Lets stay positive… don’t want to throw the Footy out with the bathwater.
Graham
Since it seems this group is sincere in asking for opinions about the Footy, here goes … some praise, some heresy … all from an outsider.
12" loa is fabulous … there is pond in a park 2 blocks from me which suits the size perfectly … match racing a small boat on a Sunday morning with friends and our kids is an appealling idea … no trip to the lake, the dogs can have a romp … a good time all around …
But … for that pond, the, the box size sucks … imagine the development if you will of a 12" skiff with pivoting deck ballast replacing a lead bulb … it won’t fit in a footy box, but it could sail in the 6" depth of said pond … still a mono, 1 extra channel but way way way more versatile (imagine a 30cm aquataur). Why sail a tiny boat along with its compromises unless you can sail it in a tiny pond?
And here’s the real heresy, where I really get slammed … Footys are ugly (ouch ouch I can feel the heat as I type … it’s alright I asked for it) … Seriously, the sexiest boats out there are skiffs, sports boats and Grand Prix Racers … as a class the Footy is dumpy (ouch) … a Footy will NOT, does NOT, can NOT appeal to youngsters who have seen the perfomance of a 49er, a Melges 24 of VOR at their respective clubs, lakes or piers … kinda like an ugly baby, the Footy is a boat only its builders can love …
So, perhaps I could have been more politic … still, fire away, show me a good looking boat, show me a boat I can sail in my local pond and I’m in …
Regards Trevor Paetkau
Ahh, Trevor, beauty is in the eye of the beholder…thank God for that or my mother would hate me!
And I love my Footy…it looks really cool with its proportionally huge rig, bowsprit and bumpkin sticking out agressively…aft mounted rudder…way cool 
My other boats are boring in comparison to my Footys!
Bill H
In support of Graham’s postal idea, the same idea has been used in archery competition. It will never replace tournaments for really determining who is the best archer that day, but it provides a way for people to compete around the globe when they can’t get together.
I think it could be fun for Footys, too, but a critical success factor is the ease of building a standard course and getting it to the pond. I get a couple of Footys and their gear in the trunk of my sportscar…so I don’t want to rent a van to take the course along!
Though I’ve had it on my list of things to do, building another Footy seems to take priority for me over building an Internet Footy Course, but I’ll get to it…I promise.
Bill H
The software development team has taken due note of all this and is working on a design that will be all thngs to all men (I hope). If you want egg-and-spoon races, you can have them.
What restrictions there are in the Footy rule are intended to keep the boats simple and suitable for inexperienced builders. There have been a few people recently in various threads and forums who have suggested that there should be a restricted division (as at present) for us mere grunts and an ‘anything goes’ open division for those who want to play hardball.
Is there room for this? Now? Sometime?
Any views?
People want to break away from the box rule already, and we haven’t even explored all of it’s possibilities! Seems to me that we would confuse many people, especially people that are not so savy of design. I don’t think it is out of the realm of this class, but I think we need to get more people interested before we take some other giant leap. It took us this long just to convince people that a 12" boat would sail!
Bob
I’m inclined to agree - but the question’s worth asking. I think that for most people and most purpose the box rule is excellent, but if people want something diffeent it is better that the Footy Class provide it rather than getting a splinter group.