As I understand it, Lester, AMYA membership does not automatically convey liability insurance to the individual, and AMYA offers such insurance at additional cost to sanctioned clubs (event organizers).
Wow, I had no idea there was so much confusion. I’ll do my best to clarify some of this stuff, but I see that even when I try to be precise in my statements, our beloved English language permits different interpretations! The good news is, with all the questions here we should be able to get it sorted out. Also, thanks everyone for keeping this in the helpful spirit that it has been. I had no idea, and I doubt that Brett did either, how overwhelming this could be.
Can someone here help with the issues of posting basic info where it doesn’t get lost over time? I’ve seen something called a “sticky” in some forums that always stays in place.
For USA registrations, anyone can register a Footy with our international Class Association free of charge. They will be given a sail number.
For USA registrants who choose to also register with the AMYA, there is a $7 fee for that registration.
An AMYA member may register a Footy with the AMYA, which I will also register with the Class Association. Alternatively, an AMYA member may choose to register a Footy with the Class Association only.
To race in local USA AMYA events, requiring membership in AMYA and an AMYA registered boat is at the discretion of individual clubs. Many do not require AMYA registration for local racing, because we try to encourage people to participate and become active skippers.
To race in USA Regional and National AMYA Championships, AMYA (or other recognized country) registration is required. So Bob, you might want to save your AMYA sail number and hull sticker for the most competitive boat, because we will have Regional and National events next season. You can register your other boats with the Class Association only, at no expense.
I have sent out hull stickers with all AMYA registrations (getting those was the reason for earlier delays.) If you registered your Footy with AMYA and did not get a sticker (registrations prior to class recognition) I will send you one if you request it. Please email me if you want one.
Angus, I’m not familiar with the legalities you mentioned about sharing registrant info. Perhaps someone else here could help? Also, I’m most impressed with the leadership role you seem to have taken on for Footys in the UK (reminds me of how it happened for somebody I know 
) I’m wondering if you’d be willing to volunteer to take over the UK Registrar job and become an official member of the committee. It would be good, I think, to have someone more active in that role. Brett tells me your Welsh accent is a bit difficult to interpret, but I haven’t noticed that too much on this forum
Bill H
Replyiing to Bill’s points:
-
As of last night I am the official MYA Footy Class Registrar. Bill Green in anxious to reduce his MYA commitments and asked me whether I would take the job. I said yes. I will be pleased to join your committee if you want me. (See also post in Other Country Registrars).
-
The ‘Welsh’ accent is actually northern English!:splat:
-
In Europe there is strict legislation on how personal data held on computers must be safeguarded, processed, etc. and the right of the ‘data subject’ (the person it’s about) to inspect the data and have it corrected. Stupid though it may sound, the fact that Joe Bloggs owns Footy no. 25 and likes sailing on Earwash Flash is probably personal data. For this type of ‘club’ application the requirements are not very stringent and the registration fee is (I think) about 40 dollars. If I hold any sort of personal data (including addresses) on the MYA UK Register and use that reguister to feed an International register in a country outside the EU, I must tell the data subjects that this possibility exists.
BOB. I can’t image what I’ve done to offend you. So far as I am concerned, you comments are always highly valued. All I was trying to say was that
a) I as a foreigner have no desire to get involved in the internal politics of American model yachting: it is none of my business at all. My only prioblem - which now seems to have been sorted - is that a $7 registration fee would make it ciommercially impossible for a kit builder to include a sal number and access to the proposed international score board with every kit.
b) This whole problem that I have raised is quite complex. In order to keep it within manageable bounds, we have Chad’;s thread in the pub which looks like becomuing the softtware arm, this on general policy and I had just set up another one on the Internet course hardware under Internet Course Postings (Graham has set up a second one). I was merely trying to suggest that we try to stick to that division.
Come back into the fold!
A.
Good to know that your are at the helm back in blighty Angus… well done that man! (Boyo)
The second Internet Course thread was intended for pure construction ideas, if that was your purpose too then apologies for the duplication mate.
Bill H. thankyou for clarifying the matter, you are right we were getting very confused out here. If that can be made into a ‘sticky’ all the better.
When I joined the AMYA there was no mention of insurance cover at all so I think that is a significant difference here Lester and as such does effect the requirement to be AMYA as compared to MYA in the UK. As an expat Yorkshireman I have stopped looking for comparisons :rolleyes:
I will be away in the woods for a week as of today, but on my return I want to look at the practicalities of taking a block of numbers each time I assemble a batch of kits to be sold pre-numbered. I am envisioning supplying the name and address of the purchaser (with permission) to the Int. Footy Class Association to complete each registration. But that’s for later discussion.
Graham
Crikey…got that wrong,sorry Angus.
Well Angus, I’m very pleased to hear that you have taken on the UK Registrar position. And, based on our Class Association rules, you are now a member of the committee. Like it or not, you are stuck with working with Brett and I to help shape the future of Footys…I’m really glad to have you as part of the team.
Of course, I’ve had my evening ration of whiskey… so everything takes on a glow that may change in the morning! Just kidding…you’ve already proved that you belong in the position.
Welcome aboard, Angus.
Bill H
I second that…motion carried.
Thanu you. Accepted with all due modesty.
I received this e-mail from Richard Alford, a Footy owner in the UK. He says that he is not a 'forum person, beutt would be very pleased if I would post it here. So …
Hello Angus,
As promised a few thoughts on the development of the Footy class. Please feel free to post it on the Forum if you think it will help discussion.
Like most stories this started some while ago. One of our model yacht club members, John, had been to New Zealand on holiday to visit a family member who lives in Duneedin. Guess what, he had run into Brett and caught the Footy bug to the extent that he returned with two Bobabouts and a set of plans. The boats looked interesting and before very long a number were under construction in the club. The build quality of the boats was variable, but they were all finished and a series of monthly races took place over the winter and spring with interesting results which are worth reviewing:
Although the club has a well established One Metre section those that had elected to build the boats were in the main sport sailors.
Some of the hulls and rigs were variable.
The English winters here are often typified by high pressure with very little wind. Our lake is also quite protected and quiet conditions prevail.
During the windier sessions most boats went pretty well and the racing was good for all. In the quieter weather many of the boats had some difficulty in sailing the course.
Time was spent in helping members produce better rigs and smoother hulls. The Footy is very sensitive in this respect. Light air sailing techniques were also talked about at some length.
During this time I developed a higher aspect ratio rig of much the same area as the original Bobabout design. This was noticeably better in light air and enabled good sailing in all conditions short of a dead calm. The sail material was cellophane from a Florist shop.
It was noticeable that members generally found it harder to get the rig right than the hull.
Articles were written for the club newsletter covering boat and sailing matters to give some help and encouragement.
It seemed to me that some of the earlier enthusiasm had dipped as a result of difficult sailing experiences in lighter airs.During the next winter series, with two exceptions, all the boats sailed were Bobabouts and little rig or other experimentation was taking place. In the period leading up to the winter series the club had been active in trying to introduce the Fiesta. For those that don’t know this is a one design about 600mm long with a Bermuda rig. It was decided to run Footy and Fiesta racing on the same day alternating races as seemed best. Again it is worth reviewing the outcome:
It didn’t take long before the Fiesta proved much more popular with members and Footy interest took second place.
Incidentally to try and address this from now on the club will be arranging Footy racing to follow the Fiesta racing as a fixed afternoon event. If it proves successful, all well and good – it will be up to members to decide by sailing or not.
So why is this? A number of possible issues arise. The Fiesta can be bought readily on the secondhand market – building even a Footy is an unwelcome chore for many. Being bigger they are much easier to sail and particularly so in light winds. They look a more serious boat which may effect some.It will be interesting to see how the new afternoon Footy only sessions turn out. At least two good boats will be available as demonstrators during race afternoons to try and encourage more Footy participation. However, it is hard to see what more can be done in the club at this stage. Incidentally a parallel attempt to introduce the Footy at another predominately One Metre club has met with in effect zero interest. I say in effect, as one member has made a very nice scale Footy which wouldn’t measure on rudder grounds and isn’t intended for racing.
On a national level I believe the MYA views the Footy as more of a schools project, the hope being that some pupils will move on to “bigger and better”. However, from the recent MYA Footy initiative we do now have a set of measurement rules which have international acceptance and represent a really useful step forward. Whether the MYA website could provide more Footy Class support to its members I don’t know.
Somehow a means has to be found to stimulate more club interest and get the class “out in the open”. The Forum and its activities are good for keeping in contact, but are no substitute for club member support and interaction. Ready or almost ready to sail Footy kits would be helpful in removing the need to build, but are probably a difficult business proposition. More magazine coverage may help. However, the fact remains that the boats can be difficult to sail in light weather and need to be sympathetically set up and handled – very small is difficult where yachts are concerned and so this class is never going to be an easy option. There is also a need to generate a more serious image for the class while stressing its enjoyment, challenges and accessibility.
So no easy answers. A final thought – a library of technical information for would be Footy builders/buyers easily available to all on the web through suitably links would be very useful. Perhaps it is already there and I have missed it?
Regards,
Richard.
Angus (or wallace&gromit, as I think of you now:sly: ) if you’re in touch with Richard again, I would love to see the technical articles or a link to where they are posted. careful with that CA. and not to be too demanding, where is that drawing of the footy gooseneck made of circlips and clevis?
R
Hi Angus,
That was a great response from Richard. I agree with his comment that rigs are more difficult that hulls. Perhaps the commercial market for footies lies in making rigs. A system that allows fine adjustments would attract my $$.
Do you have any idea what their usuall Footy course was? Length? Richard’s experience in that arena would help us as we try to figure out fleet courses. Well, around here, we still need more than 1 Footy too.
tallastro
USA33
I will negotiate. Unfortunately he’s a bit deaf and doesn’yb like talking on the phone! Soutwater club have 18 Footies (I think) and I’m going to try to get themto conduct a fleet experiment.
A.
Peoole!
We’re getting some feedback, butnot all that much. Don’t be the ‘mid-boat nark’ of the future. Let’s have some more input from moe people.
Richards comments are most interesting.
Richard is, of course, one of the early adopters of Footys and has a lot of experience with them. The things he mentions with regard to Footy performance and handling difficultys parallel my own experience. Unfortunately, it sounds like his club kind of stagnated on development.
The Footys I’m currently sailing (Razor and American Footy) have overcome most of the problems Richard mentions. Hull and rig designs have improved to the point where the boats can be sailed hands off on most tacks in most conditions. Light air performance is greatly improved with the larger rigs. My wife, who has a total of about 1 hour stick time over a 5 year period, had no trouble sailing my Footy the other day while I was helping another skipper. There’s no reason why people should have trouble learning to sail, or get discouraged sailing, a well-designed Footy.
The really neat thing about what I just said is that we’re still only scratching the surface of what I believe is the full potential of these boats. There’s so much to learn and experiment with that we can have fun for years to come!
Bill H
p.s. John, study the pics in FootyUSA for rig set-up ideas. My rigs have all the same adjustments that my bigger boats have, including a topping lift, which I can’t put on my Soling 1m!
Yes an interesting post by Richard, thankyou for relaying that Angus.
It does give an insight into something I am very aware of having sailed with four different clubs in the UK… inertia.
I was a little suprised to read of the ‘difficult handling’ especially as it related to light weather. I suspect though that as I have come into Footys just recently I am seeing what may be termed ‘second generation’ Footys. From the moment of launch my own proto. Kittiwake tacked hands off either way and sailed all points without wandering. I make no secret of the fact though that Bob-about and Razor were my study material as they obviously both sailed well. So I had good teachers.
So maybe the difficulties were mostly rig related? In my travels I have seen some quite awful attempts at sails and rigging. If you consider the apparent complexity of rigging to a beginner you will appreciate that there is lots of scope to go wrong! My kit builders appear to be achieving satisfying results in varying conditions (as reported elsewhere, RCG) so Tallastro you could well be right that being supplied with ready to use sails and a fully controlled clearly described rig is the key.
Please forgive a little market research here… (or delete if you don’t like it sir);
I have been offering ready to use Kittiwake sails since starting ‘scalesailing.com’ but have had only a few takers. If I were to offer instead the Kittiwake rig… sails, aluminium mast, mast tube, wood booms, bowsies, ‘Stren’ rigging thread, ss hook wire, etc. plus instructions as a rig package would that be of more interest? This rig will work on the Bob-about and similarly laid out hulls too.
I am working on a carbon tube based ‘drop in upgrade’ rig also.
So chaps… am I wasting my time or would hull builders desire such rigs?
Graham
USA10
Richard sent me some photos of his setups to post on the forum,they are much to large to post here.
The Southwater club seems to have stayed with the “BobAbout” design in a sort of one design class.
Richards suggestions are good but are pretty much a given for any class of boat if you want to be on the pace.These small boats magnify any mistake in building and tuning.They are harder to “sort” than bigger boats,that being said I love the challenge of getting it all right and that is certainly a big attraction of this class to me.
Much has happened since I published “Bob”,the current boats that are being built and tested are much much better than “Bob”
“BobAbout” will always be special to me,I have kept the boat totally original as I first built it.
“BobAbout” was the first boat I designed and built after the death of my Father…RIP Bob. To have been so sucessful in bring the Footy class to fruition and having so many sisters built has been most rewarding.
The next generation of Footys will surely show what these little boats are capable of,stayed tuned.
Southwater do actually have two ‘home-brewed’ one offs - including the winner of last year’s Footy design competition.
Anyone else have any thoughts on the future of the Footy class? What do yiu want the Footy Class Association to do for you?
Please put your 2c worth in!
Being new to r/c sailing and sailing in general, I’m not sure what I expect to get out of this or the future of Footys. I’m already enjoying sailing my Footy and chatting with folks, some in far off places, about building and making the Footys perform better. It’s a nice sense of community. I really like the Internet course and scoreboard ideas. Worldwide fleet races would be fun too. And “fun” might be the key ingredient to this class.
However we proceed, having fun should be the first priority. It should be fun for first time builders and skippers. It should be fun for seasoned pros. We can still follow serious racing rules but we want to have serious fun. The corinthian ideal I’ve read about with sailing is a nobel goal. It seems a bit stuffy for the Footy Class. My college fencing team was focused on fun and we regularly beat quite a few sober, serious teams.
So that’s my $0.02. If we have fun and follow tomohawk’s “sail honest” principle, we’ll grow this class and have something to be really proud.
tallastro (still smiling after breaking his Footy today):tand:
USA33
Tallastro: that is the most sensible and cogent posting in this thread.
The Footy is (or should be) an entry level boat - or at least the first one that does come out of a plastric package. This means there will be lots of people like you. They want interest and they want FUN.
THE NAME OF THE GAME IS FUN!
I think that the proposed international scoreboard could be a very important element in that fun. It doesn’t really matter whether the fleet racing element is ideally conceived SO LONG AS EVERYONE CAN FIND THEIR OWN PRIVATE ENEMY OR ENEMIES - the ‘equally incompetent Belgian’.
It is not specifically a means of producing world champions - more a league of club fleets. Unless someone can liberate the America’s Cup, I really cannot see prizes of any more worth than the title ‘Intergalactic Footy King’ actually making anyone do anything that they weren’t going to do anyway. Tallastro isn’t going to go seriously after a world title now - no matter what the prize. As he says, he has a lot to learn. But a needle match against another club in Colwyn Bay might give him a lot of entertainment.
I think that the scoreboard should be implemented and pushed if we can get someone to write the software. We also have three designs for a standard course - existing Internet, sunk string, sunk tube. There is no doubt that one or more of these will work. Let’s get the software boat cranked up.