Alan, hows this for a “Diet”!..
New keel structure for my Ultralight 120.
Your a sick puppy !!! … love it Jim, looks great 
how are you planning the mast set-up and winch positioning ? Did you end up going with the 96 gsm unidirectional ?
The way your going with your new SWE 96 she will be carrying lot of hull correctors, maybe its time we talk to the powers to be, about lowering the displacement of IACC 120 class down to …whatya reckon 4,200 grams ?
Yep she’s Hi modulus uni’s and 1 woven, both 96 gsm. The winch goes above the keel, through the deck. Mast is a sensitive subject as its a minature copy of the full sized yachts…
I’d say the most sensible way is to wait to see just how light this boat actually becomes, and take a step back from there rather than speculate at the moment… Claudio’s proposal of 4000g is my target.
Or at least until the stiffness and fragility have been verified. That said, I am not ruling out the possibility to go lighter still. I am looking at another range of cloth, this was designed for the International Moth class. I am hoping to get a sample from SP and try it out. Its a 1 shot deal, the cloth is woven so tightly that once cured it is 100% sealed. I was told the weight is 150 gram. Removing the porosity issue would lighten things up to new levels!
Guys -
just from experience, every time you decide to drop minimum weight by a gram, you have effectively dropped one more potential and interested builder. Classes like the One Meter One Design (ODOM) remain popular because they have a specific minimum weight that is not difficult to meet by home builders. While I know it seems to be fashionable today to brag about low weights, you have (or are) entering a zone that turns off a majority of interested builders … it is either weight or dollars … so while I applaud your efforts to continually keep reducing weight you will soon be in a class with only a minimum number of boats that are competitive. Now if racing isn’t your goal - forget my comments and proceed with an elite class of ultralights that most builders can’t match, but if you truly want to build a class with a number of boats and encourage class racing, you may want to reconsider.
Just looking in from the outside 
Hi Dick, I hear where you’re coming from, I’m only a home builder myself with limited budget and just the bare basics of a workshop AND I have every intention of trying to be competitive while staying within the class rules as they currently stand.
Unlike many other classes IACC 120 has a least a TEN of different designs available (look em up) http://iacc120cup.altervista.org/Main0E.html, which is testament to flexibility this class has, that is why I decided to build one. The challenge of exploring the limits of class rules from a design and construction perspective is part of the spirit and attraction of IACC 120 and the sharing ideas with the wonderful talent that frequents this forum …is the reason we are all here?
For those that peek into what the Italians are doing, you will see the serious ones build at least two or three boats to gain a little more competitiveness each time, that is the nature of this class “continual development” with new ideas, thats what we need to compete with on this side of the pond
If people wish to sail one class one design boats that’s the choice we all have …but at the end of the day for all the nuts and boats that go on the water (within the rules) it’s that one nut controlling the sticks who really makes all the difference.
Cheers Alan
it is either weight or dollars …
Actually, I disagree. Sorry Dick ! My boat was not expensive… Concrete mould, materials bought online from a very competitive supplier… We are still playing in the ‘real’ world…
[QUOTE=K1W1;57019]H The challenge of exploring the limits of class rules from a design and construction perspective is part of the spirit and attraction of IACC 120 and the sharing ideas with the wonderful talent that frequents this forum …is the reason we are all here?
Very nicely put and I have to agree with you 100%… The info sharing is for the benefit of all and helps everyone get on the right track! Its not meant as a pure contest. Plus - we all are contributing to the promotion of the class… In my experience, anyone that has lined up against one of these yachts is blown away by it going higher and faster than their IOM. Boy do they want one… These boats are fantastic experience to build and sail, with great potential for more.
Cheers, Jim
Guys - my point was the “bad idea” of fooling with class rules before they have even had time to mature. Even our F-48 multihull class of which we are very careful to note is a development class WITHOUT ANY weight limitations and had as its ground rules a period of several years BEFORE any class rule changes would be allowed for discussion, let alone a vote. My point I was trying to make is that if you have 6 boats under construction - the last thing those builders want to hear is a “discussion about a proposed rule change” to lower minimum weights. It would be like designing a monohull to one set of rules, without knowing a new rule is being considered to make your current effort - well - sorta obsolete.
If you have the means and abilities to build them light, my suggestion is to play within the rules, add your required “corrector weights” and allow home builders who prefer wood and/or glass to build heavier, meeting the weight minimums and still having a competitive chance. As noted - “cement” molds - carbon fired “required” hulls to be competitive and you start losing the builders who have done an “OK” IOM but were looking at something a bit larger.
When I promote an F-48 multihull build, I include a standalone statement that it is a development class - and if the person considering a build wants to be on the leading edge - they had better be prepared to spend the money and invest time and learning into the technologies required to all them to be where they want to be. As an example, this might mean two RMG winches (at $$$$) - one for jib and one for mainsail. Some guys can’t afford even one of those winches, so they show up with a very slow (but inexpensive) winch, dump the boat in a gust, and the style of boat has a bad name cause it tips over too easily. No one thinks to consider the owner was playing with a limited budget and the winch chosen was too slow - BUT inexpensive.
Simply look to the IOM Class and you will see those whose budget have almost no limits, and then you see the builders who are looking for freebie plans just to save a buck or two. Those who are hard core IOM sailors probably won’t want to play in your playground, since there simply aren’t the number of boats in competition like there are in the IOM class. Those who have a very limited budget won’t either.
I’m not trying to be pro or con - just pointing out the downfalls of rules that change when the class is still in it’s infancy. If you get on that bandwagon, be realistic and simply remove all weight limits and/or other restrictions - be developmental, and be ready to build a new boat to beat the one that just hit the water. In reality, length, keel depth and sail area may be the only real rules you need. But is that the way you really want to go?
I wish you luck, and watch the ongoing builds taking place. Hopefully I am completely wrong, and others will join in the builds.
Cheers
I will take responsiability for the “rule changing” changing comment… I was jesting at the time & this may have triggered Dick comments …I don’t wish to have the rules changed but as you quite rightfully say If you have the means and abilities to build them light, my suggestion is to play within the rules, add your required “corrector weights” this is the game plan …
hey if they break in the process … they will make damn good looking submarines ! 
Cheers :zbeer:
Hull #2 closed up today and in the water this weekend, hull #3 now gets ready for the bench …
Cheers Alan
Great race by the guys in La Maddalena today … Great win ETNZ
Hi Alan
are you sure to reconize them ? hihihi!!
Great job !
Good ‘recovery’, was not so easy in La Maddalena. I regret, nevetheless, that the race is either too short in lenght or in number of turns.
ciao
Claudio
Thank you, as they say in the last country I lived in " same same but different" :watching2
If they shorten LVT courses any more they can race on IACC 120 courses but tend to agree with you that the LVT courses being little too short, just one mistake and your out ! 1 kilometer longer leg would be little more forgiving and offer chance for a come back and would be more exciting viewing …
Absolutely no wind here in the last 2 weeks so spending most time that I have in the workshop, have abandoned the idea of Hull # 3 being experimental boat and decided to go for ultra light weight build instead.
Cheers Alan
Alan,
exist already one design about that I forced to IACC 120 Cup to adopt and they refused , is the : AC120 “Sport” with 4000g minimum weight instead of 4500g
Actually Im working on a New design the : AC-100 – Logo and Rules already written (italian for the time being) Probably a New Site/Club will be created in Italy.
One desig is already available at : http://www.nonsolovele.com/index.shtml and a second one is under frame’s drawing process, the main layout is here in attachment.
Cheers
Claudio
Claudio, great idea the AC 100 … wish I had that option before I had started my 120’s, I would have leaned toward this size for transportation reasons mainly, don’t get me wrong I would not give my 120’s away for the earth.
I did not know about your AC 120 sport class thread and have only just read about it and understand the Italian reasoning, but I feel it is destiny that the a sport version will come about one way or another (Jim and I are interested as your have gathered) as materails and designs improve over time, thats the law of development, it never stops.
A question for Dick, I noticed that this forum has sites dedicated to RG 65, Footy Class & Multione, I would like to ask if it is possible to have a site dedicated to “AMERICAS CUP CLASS” boats.
Currently most AC topics are posted under NEW CLASSES or SCALE SAILING here I referring to some of early J-Class boats which is an AC class boat, it just seems to me that tag NEW CLASS is the wrong classification for AC boats, by all means there are different boat designs in the AC CLASS over the years including Tri’s & Cats which represent the cutting edge of sailing technology which is what the AC Class primarily is all about.
To my knowledge there is no R/C forums on the net that have a dedicated AC site with the exception of the Italian http://iacc120cup.altervista.org/ which only cover IACC 120 series 5 AC boats and from what I understand Claudio says that they are not interested supporting other AC formats, which is fine.
With Claudio and others being an incredible source of knowledge with amazing marine architect skills with challenging new ideas here and promoting current AC Class 100, 120, 130, 150 RC yachts as well as J-Classes and showing other such ideas as the AC 33 concept, it would be nice to have this in one central resource where everyone can chose their own design & size of AC boat.
Hey my sons are already pushing for the idea of having a footy AC Class design
Dick, I for one would like to see the AC class have one dedicated site in this forum, if it is at all possible ?
Are there others like myself that would be interested in AMERICAS CUP CLASS section in this forum ?
Cheers Alan
Alan - yes, I would think givent the amount of posts dedicated to this particular size - a separate forum index would be considered. Unfortunately, I am only a moderator and while we get to “kill off” bad posts, the site owner will need to consider and set up. The owner is Chad, and you probably need to send him a message or email requesting the new specific location for the AC threads. He could set it up for both 100 and 120 sizes, if there is enough posts to warrant both. At the same time, if you identify all the AC120 threads, it is possible he could move from current location over to the new location once it is set up.
Go to “Community” tab above, then to “members” and then click on “C” (for Chad). He is found on page 3, part way down the page.
Dick
Hi Dick,
do you agree that more the 100000 views over two AC120 3D could be a strong argument ? I think is a record in the forum !!!
Cheers
Claudio
Claudio -
I thought those were all of YOUR posts ! No one else is reading the topic. Ha Ha Ha ! (only kidding) :lol:
Stay well. Dick
Sent message to Chad couple of days ago, no response so far he must be on holidays …?
Finally managed to catch a day with some wind down the local watering hole and shake down hull # 2 for the first time…she’s sails as well as her sister…Fantastic !!! 
Now with two boats built with relatively same performance I can start using this for comparative fine performance tuning improvement.
Cheers Alan :zbeer:
You fellas did say “thanks” to site owner (Chad) for providing a separte forum topic for the IACC boats … right?
:rolleyes: