As I keep updating the another thread with all kinds of slightly off topic, but insightful info to the new Americas Cup fiasco…
I thought I’d now stick my new and more off topic findings in the ‘Pub.’ instead.
I’m hoping that this is a friendly place and nothing said here is taken personally. (Well, actually it can’t unless I know you!|)
‘The Pub Or the Bar’… This is where people, in my industry, are made or broken. (you have to be there, to believe it… )
So, it only seems fitting to share the eager ear, or maybe slightly "common knowledge " (It just depends on the circles that you run in…) info here instead.
I will stick it down in the Pub, as that is where it may just have originated from!..
Rumbo, anyone?..Go on, you know you want it!
As I keep updating the another thread with all kinds of slightly off topic, but insightful info to the new Americas Cup fiasco…
Re: 34th America’s Cup Design - Mono or Multi Hull ?
Top piece of gossip - maybe a little old for those in the know, but maybe of interest to others…
All the seasoned boatbuilders have left the Core facility in NZ. ( and I mean full stop!)
It was over a dispute about the pay.
As the facility has grown into a commercial concern, the people in control assumed that skilled professionals were no longer ‘Americas Cup’ employees and declassified the ‘Product’ to the same as ‘Production yacht’ to justify a pay cut in the current economic crisis.
The management ‘culled’ the wages and brought them inline other local projects to maximise profit. (In Laymans terms)
As a result, anyone with skills walked off the job because that was not what they signed on the dotted line for… and most, joined the Volvo Abu Dhabi build in Italy. ( not a bad alternative…) Or went elsewhere…
So watch out, there are about to be some seriously expensive time bombs out there!
Not looking forward to being ‘Shore Crew’ again… I hate fixing other muppetz fukupz…
The Spanish team ‘Iberdrola’ have just finished painting their base in a slightly less ( only just) disgusting shade of green…
- WTF do they know that the rest of us don’t?..
This is the old (and legally impotent) ‘Challenger Of Record’ …
Right, lets get something straight…
If you want to blame someone for the biggest cock up in AC History then look no further than these guys… Oracle hung them and Alinghi out to dry.
Some might say that Tom Ehman needed to save his job, (which he did)… and his ideas, in the end managed to beat Alinghi with the biggest legal stick available at the time… Designed, made and executed by a Spanish fictional yacht club under the ‘retarded’ leadership of Augustin Zulueta and co… Nice work guys! (U Fe’kin tards)…
If you thought that these people had been laughed out of the industry for ever, then you are wrong!
Its INSANE to think that this muppet is still in charge of the biggest and most expensive balls up Spain has ever seen next to Franco…
Back on topic…
Now, think about it - If you have money… You would spend it where it counts, but, if you have shitloads of money , erm…Then you repaint your base that’s supposedly going to get knocked down??? So maybe these Bases have a certain future?..
'Backhanders" are a Spanish speciality… Thats why 50% of the whole of Europe’s €500 Euro note quota is said to reside in Spanish territory.
Perhaps some of that €€€€€€’s is now in the hands a certain someone in a certain non E.U. Country… Hmmm…God Bless America?.. Guzzling cum…!
Penny pinching at wrong end of the pencil, what are these “wing nuts” (Oracle) doing !!
Talking about time bombs (costs) whats your take on this new ultra thin carbon called graphene ? http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/06/science/06nobel.html qouted as “the greatest thing since sliced pencil lead.” reckon it will make it onto AC wings ? …this would “blow” budgets faster than Beckham’s latest romp.
Mind blowing! I’m not sure that it will be far enough developed for this AC, but there is a material that might. This remarkable material comes from carrots, was pioneered in the Uk and actually in the draught proposal for the AC90 class!
Curran is the commercial name…
Here are the numbers that BMWO present to the potential challengers (see attachment) showing a ‘standard competitor’ budget of € 89 mill. It’s a little dated since it has been brought forward to 2013 not 2014, so there are a few pennies to be saved :lol:
There was also an ‘economy challenge’ budget of € 62 mill for teams that wish to enter for future development but not truly serious about winning this time around.
I understand that in the whole history of the Cup, there have probably only been 3 teams that have spent that amount in a single Cup cycle, given the current economic situation, how do you raise that amount from sponsors when you can do a Volvo for about 20% of that figure? And here I was thinking that the idea was to reduce costs as much as possible…PIGS ARSE !!!
So we have the most expensive Cup ever … at the tail end of a global finacial melt-down … at the same time as the odds are stacked more heavily than ever in favour of the defender, who isn’t listening to anything any potential team is saying to them and people are thinking that BOR are doing a good job! …oh yeah !?
If the number of “outside” syndicates that showed up to poke/prod the C Class cats at their championships are any indication of interest, what you are hearing may well be what is “intended” for you to hear. I don’t think it is unusual for anyone connected with the “game” to provide a bit of false information to make others “think and wonder” a bit.
For the French, I guess I would lay my best bet on them stepping up - after all - they have been playing “this game” longer than most anyone else, and probably have the most invested in making big, fast “things” that go fast but seldom break.
Grant Dalton http://www.sail-world.com/Europe/Americas-Cup:-Four-French-multihull-designers-join-Team-New-Zealand?/75542 seems to be playing smart move by taking little wind out of the french sails.
But the silence from other LV players is deafening … isn’t it ? GGYC accepting challenges from 1 November 2010 until 31 March 2011, who do you think will be in ?
Emirates Team New Zealand
Mascalzone Latino-Capitalia Team (Italy)
Luna Rossa Challenge (Italy)
+39 Challenge (Italy)
Desafio Español 2007 (Spain)
Areva Challenge (France)
Team Shosholoza (South Africa)
China Team (China)
TeamOrigin – England OUT
United Internet Team - Germany OUT
Azzurra – Italy OUT
Interesting that the post equates “round-the-world” large multihull sailing with fleet and/or match racing. Isn’t this the point where non-multihull folks would “suggest” that there “…are no tactics to racing multihulls!” Will be interesting to see if, in a fleet larger than 2 boats, there is a change in minds/positions and we find out there really are tactics to multihull racing?
There might be a possible entry from the Oman team that was left off your list. With their involvement in the “small” boats, a step up might be likely. In reality, I think the current economy will have more influence on competitor numbers, than the desire (or non-desire) to race in multihulls. Only a speculation - but as things ramp up and become “public” I think there may be sponsors sitting on the sidelines waiting to see who is “in”.
The only reason OMAN is not on the list is that to my knowledge they have never had an AC Team, anyway my point is that with BMWO raising the financial stakes they are wiping-out most if not all the previous AC teams. If they want to compete only with new teams let’em do it !!!
BMWO are playing chess while other teams are thinking checkers … and there is always a winner in checkers, only hope for the sake of AC tradition that the 34th does not turn into a check-mate for BMWO.
Has anyone thought about the possibility there maybe a “European Cup spin-off” ?
Looking at the above list of existing teams most are European anyway, with established facilities already in Valencia, budgets would be less than half of the next Americas Cup and they have boats or can produce updates … “maybe the current bases do have a future” … now there is food for thought :rolleyes:
Cheers Alan :zbeer: we are in the pub after all
While I will concede “anything” is possible, I doubt that ISAF and the “CUP” deed holders would be too thrilled to see a bunch of looming litigation - that is unless Bertarelli decides he has more money to spend (waste, whatever). With all the other races around being run here, there and everywhere - I would suppose any one of them could be designated as the “CUP” race. Why the need to spend any money if that is the concern? Everyone “whines” about the costs to compete - so why not Farr 40’s, Melges 30’s or even TP-52’s ? There are lot of them out there, used boats and teams probably available and willing - and yet the monohull supporters of the cup insist we have to come up with yet another one-design/open design monohull.
If it’s monohull racing - then use current state of the art, go semi-one design and save “squatloads” of $$$$$ using existing technology. OR - spend the $$$$$, play on the leading edge and don’t complain of costs. Come on - you can’t have it both ways… it’s going to be an open competition, or closed competiton except for millionaires. Heck - I could see where it could become an event for “invitation only”.
If the “CUP” boats are intended to “trickle-down” new technology - I would offer that concept is also available from a multihull investment. When towing tanks were replaced by CAD and Velocity Projection software - some were upset about “tradition”. When the IACC style boats replaced the old 12 Meters, many more decried the passing of a tradition. When “film” sails replaced Dacron - more complaints. When Conner’s catamaran beat the New Zealand 125 foot (monster) monohull, there were wringing hands by the “traditionalists”. Then carbon fiber took hold in place of fiberglass - which had previously replaced wood. Sponsors soon jumped on board to fund boats logoed up like a NASCAR racer. Stainless steel rigging went out as Spectra and other forms of line rigging came in. A look at history (for me) indicates there is no place for “traditionalists” in the “CUP” game.
If you want to play, you just need to ante up, buy the chips, take your place at the table and hold on for tha Royal Flush ---- unless of course you happen to run out of money first.
[/QUOTE] the French, I guess I would lay my best bet on them stepping up - after all - they have been playing “this game” longer than most anyone else, and probably have the most invested in making big, fast “things” that go fast but seldom break.[/QUOTE]
Are you sure you are talking about sailing?.. Thats not the the perception at all. The only thing their stuff is reliable at, is being unreliable.
Have you heard of the MOD 70’s?
Already got a world circuit drawn up… builds are happening, all at the Decision yard in Swiss land… Someone beat Oracle already…
I’d like to see the ‘Trickle down’ of technology to the poor keelboat sailors that represent the greatest majority on the water…
Hi Jim - probably similar to what we see in Formula racing, military aviation, security systems, information technology, etc. … sooner or later we “poor” persons making up a majority of the population get the benefits of technology. Otherwise, my friend - composites whould not have a future. Where would the composite industr be without huge sums of money to “prime the pump” - where it be by millionaires - or by government taxes? Not to get on a political rant at the moment, other than to say it would be nice to se prices on carbon fall, and availability increase - instead of being 'sucked up" by military, space, auto racing, etc.
OK - so I took license with “poor keelboat sailors” and switched it to represent life and technology in general.
Mate, I agree, we rely on the top end sectors to pioneer the next level…
I was kind of referring to wing sails on cruising yachts… come on!
That technology is not going to apply. So as a result all the rig and sail development will slow as the other racing yacht sectors do not have that time and money and resource to push the envelope as far as quickly, hence the ultimate looser is the the people like the VO70’s Open 60’s, STP 65’s TP52’s the Farr 40’s… Keel boats with soft sails… these people are first in line for the spinoffs.
There is going to be a gap left, for sure…
Sadly your right Dick …but will we see Larry playing by himself ?.. but he does have his Italian poodle under the table Mascalzone
Reckon if he needs some serious players at the table to give the event crediabilty … he’s going to have to pay for their chips too.:winking:
Update list: Luna Rossa announced a while ago that they won’t be in
Synergy is making some noises in the right direction…
Astute (Jim) -
I recall the “Walker Wing Sail” that was in production for a number of years - and probably way the heck ahead of itself and sailing concepts at the time. It was sold as a cruising multihull and while some were sold, just not enough interest.
An interesting concept is the Wally Omer Wing Sail - which is a “soft” wing. Neat concept. Here is link to their photos, but take particular note of the forward wing section which runs up and down on a simple round tube…allowing sail to be raised/lowered/reefed, etc. - everything that a cruising sailor would want. After seeing the “interior” photos of the wing, I am thinking of trying one for one of my 1.2 meter multihulls. Basically a wing shape, fabric and the extended “boom” - not sure what to call it - provides the camber control.
Here is link… http://www.omerwingsail.com/Gallery/
I’ve seen a Walker yacht in the Solent quite a number of times… Its was a futuristic design!
As for the WOW…Its a really neat system… And I’m thinking along similar lines as you and after watching some videos, it looks like it could be adapted and provide a huge advantage!
But, its a private development outside the Cup world, the profile of which has been pushed into serous limelight by Luca Bassani and the Wally team.
Imagine how much further it would be with a racing teams involvement.
A sad day on Friday… Started cutting up the first bulb on the base today… 20.65 tons to be exact!
( The heaviest 32nd bulb perhaps? )
A sign that change is just around the corner… It wasn’t going to go without a fight, Nice burnout from the forky trying to extract it from the place it was stored for the last 3 years - I love making that thing work for its living…