All of us have seen new classes proposed here, all based on the fin bulb and high aspect ratio boat. Well, here is a real new class.
Speed sailing. Yup, just like the full size boats, just boiled down some. 300’ course, lets see who can get the fastest time. No rules, just come up with the most radical one way design you can, and see how it compares. So have I piqued anybody’s interest?
You have my attention…I’m a fan of open classes, and like to see people experiment. We don’t learn anything new from one-design classes.
Anyone else?
Bill
For sure the fastest boat will be the longhest expecially if multihull!
ClaudioD
I have been “IN” since 1999 when then AMYA Open Class secretary (Jose Torres) first started the promotion for both speed sailing and for a way (Portsmouth) to handicap boat classes by speed. A speed trial can still use one design classes, since there are variations in those designs - PLUS - knowing a benchmarked speed could assist in developing a regatta where IOM’s could race with US1M vs. 36/600, etc. - since each class would have it’s own benchmarked speed.
I will stay tuned and hope there is interest from the “classes” as well ass the open speedsters that have been purpose built.
Dick
Multihulls are not the only game for speed sailing. There are monohull foilers, saucer shaped monos, and other designs like the fliptacker. These are all planing hulls, and so do not need a long waterline length to achieve speed. I’m tooling around with some ideas in my head, might start putting pencil to paper soon. Hopefully somebody else will join in!
You may try something similar : http://issuu.com/speeddream/docs/speeddream2 or http://www.speeddream.org/site/index.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eebE-4hWzo4&feature=related
Further you may take some ideas from Dynamic Stability Systems - DSS
ClaudioD
We have already tried foiling canting keel + canting canard/t-foil yachts… not bad with lots of wind and sail area.
Oh yeah…
How’s this for a class rule?.. These yachts hulls are made from a single flat sheet of carbon. No time consuming or expensive moulds etc. Laminate on a smooth flat surface and allow to cure. Release, cut & trim for the chines, bend to shape and glue up!
After making all the parts, (+ 2 years of development and testing ideas for the canting keel wetbox) I assembled the whole boat in a weekend.
I would suggest experimentation and perfect your design with cardboard first.
I devised this system and made my first rc ‘fast electric’ like this at around the age of 11 or 12.
One drawback - Very hard to get rocker with this system… but if you are on foils - Who needs rocker?..
The only class rule, in my opinion, should be to go fast. This is not devised as a traditional racing format, but rather a time trial over a straight course. The idea is set records for the fastest model sailboat, not a traditional looking boat per se. I was thinking of boats like sailrocket, or l’hydroptere, in full scale jargon. On length of the course, are we gonna use miles per hour, kilometers per hour, or knots to measure speed. Which one would affect how long the course would be, so lets vote.
I personally vote for knots. I beleive it is pretty much universal, although the non sailing world would have no idea of how fast that is!
I liked your original idea of time to sail 300 feet. Speed on the course may vary but only finish time counts.
Your concept of no other rules will be interesting. My first attempt will be to sail over the course with a small lead ballasted boat that’s about 0.222" in diameter. I should finish the course in about 0.2 seconds. I can guarantee starting right on the gun too. :devil3:
Boy, that sounds as fast as a bullet!
Okay, bad joke, maybe the only rule then should be wind powered. I guess my first attempt with no rules would be with a lazer pointer. Much faster than a speeding bullet!
I quite like this idea because it encourages creativity and doesn’t require a local fleet to make it interesting. The course should be short to make for easier logistics with boats that might only sail in one direction and it would allow for more runs-per-hour which should make it more fun (high fun:time ratio!). I also think that there needs to be a simple size filter (max LOA?) or it will just turn into a money-wins-all arms race.
I also think this could be quite effectively done without any radio control…
kzimmerman
did not specified wich course : Close hauled , Running , Reaching or all 3 with an average measurement ?
One could develop a fast model for running and being slow when close hauled, etc .
So when you says “no rules”, once sitting around the table and start talking with details it will pup up something different of what was told at the beginning !
So far the simplest rule I have seen was the “Rectangle”
ClaudioD
The modern speed sailing rules don’t specify a direction, only a certain distance to be covered. They used to require that a vessel sail the reciprocal course within one hour’s time as well and that their official speed would be the average of the two passes combined, but this seems to have been relaxed now allowing designers to explore craft that don’t have to make the return trip.
Let each entrant choose their course relative to the wind and compare their times over a similar distance. People from all over the world can compete against each other at any time by posting their result on a common board with an accompanying video for verification. Simple.
Maybe use a 1m length as a limitation so that some of the people involved in the popular classes could trick out their boats for an attempt?
Yup, just what we need, another one meter class! LOL! It’s popular for a reason, I suppose. One meter sounds good, with the specification that the boat be required to run a 300’ course one way, point of sail not important. What is important is the fastest time!
If you are going to limit size - you are limiting performance and the results will not be indicative of what it is you want/seek.
As I suggested above, each class could/should have their own speed trials within their individual classes. That would be a good beginning, since the boats are already built and ready to be raced as a “one design” (of sorts). Obviously taking the IOM as example - most would opt for the “A” rig - but someone might find the “B” rig faster - so what ever is posted assumes the boat was class legal. Otherwise, it is simply an event for the “open class” and unrestricted boats could race - but is a 2 meter multihull faster than an IOM - probably but then we sould see discussions of percent based on waterline or sail area. Even drag racing has it’s separate classes so having an OPEN event would prove very little… unless that is what you seek. If you don’t set some rules, interest will quickly disappear, as a FOOTY speedster will not compare with a 36 inch boat which won’t compare against a 1 mete boat, and then once times/speeds are sent in, yoou will see the “discussions” that an IOM is not the same as a 1 meter Soling, so they SHOULD be different in speed/time.
The FOOTY Class has already set up a process for speed trials and the course is easy to build - although the size of a FOOTY compared with an “A” Class, 10 Rater, and some of the bigger boats makes it much easier to have a quick set-up for a course. Read the FOOTY threads to see how they are tracking.
Either use classes on their own, or abandon any rules and what runs is what runs. R/C control should be required regardless of the size. I think Caludio makes a good point that unless there are some rules, a break-thru design/idea might happen which will just make others mad that didn’t think of th idea. If you want it to be than a single, one-time event - or if you want it to repeat and get folks working hard on new ideas are decisions to be made.
Just a few thoughts.
ADDED: Since the above post got in before mine … OK - so you have decided on a course length, and a one meter long boat. So, here we go with the question - how many guys will build a 1 meter boat to compete with another 1 meter boat if they have no idea if someone is bringing a gun to a knife fight (I like that analogy) - and will the winner resemble a boat at all? Keep in mind it was always expected tha a multihull would hold the speed record in “real” boats until the sailboard came along and everyone was hammered.
http://www.speedsailing.com/Boats_RC_Models.htm
Actually Dick, my interpretation of the spirit of the original post was that the idea was to infact encourage creative solutions and the bringing of that proverbial gun. It’s about approaching a very specific challenge with as few rules or limitations as possible.
I don’t really care about the size of the boats but suggested 1m so that some people might already have something in their fleet to use as a starting point or trial-horse. Anything that can be broken down to fit inside a Toyota Prius is fine by me ;).
So a Hobie 14 with radio control, BIG batteries and winches is OK ! It sits on top of the Prius - remember … no rules?
SevenFeathers -
I see and agree with your points - but would add it will be a one-time or two time event. Again I refer to the Salt Flats speed trials as another example. They run stuff against stuff that is equal. At the end of the day - the times will tell which was fastest - but in the meantime, there will be bragging rights for the fastest IOM, for the fastest ODOM, for the fastest US1Meter, for the fastest Seawind, for the fastest Soling, for the fastest MultiONE, (leaving the 1 meter class) for the fastest Footy, the fastest Nirvana, the fastest Laser, and so forth.
So my point is - if you are going through an effort to crown a “King of the Hill” - continued interest would probably be greater ( a guess) if you also, and at the same time crown “King of The Bumps”.
Cheers.
just throwing out an idea, in order too keep the class affordable for everyone why not set the price (not counting electronics) to something affordable like $200? that way no one can dump 5k into a boat and it keeps Dick Lemke up there from buying a hobie 14.
just a side note, think about most open fleets:
buisness owner > walmart bagboy
or with set price:
Bill Gates = walmart bagboy
I like your analogy, but even imposing an upper spend limit may not iron out all disparity, unless you have a particular supplier in mind or you stipulate that all purchases must be at retail prices. Trade discounts can be quite considerable which potentially offers the competitor who’s also in the trade an unfair advantage when compared to the majority out there who buy small quantities on an irregular basis.
Just playing ‘devils advocate’ on this one, but I do believe the idea has serious merits.
Regards,
Row