A F48/Mini 40 for the masses.

Ok we need to work together on this one, we need to design between us a Multihull that fits this critera;

  1. The boat will cost no more than ?250 ready to sail, excluding radio gear.
  2. It should perform well enough to be significanly faster than any fixed keel r/c monohull of similar length.
  3. It should be sailable in winds ranging from 1-25knots, on typical large lake conditions (ie must be able to take sudden gusts and shifts and small waves without loseing it).
  4. It will be simple to set up and tune.
  5. It will use 2 channel R/C
  6. It will be a trimaran (they are easyer to handle round corners so its easyer to convert to one from a mono)
  7. I must be able to be produced in number by anyone with a professional standard composits workshop.

Ok guys Its over to you. If any hint of an non-constuctive argument starts I will delete/edit it out. We work together on this one or we might as well give up hope of ever seeing a multi fleet to rival any of the mono classes.

So firstly, is there any boats alread out there that fit the box? If there is we want all the info possible on those boats, plans, pic’s whatever.

Note to mods; I want to moderate this one to myself, If anything starts, lock the topic and I’ll sort it next tim I’m online.

Luff 'em & leave 'em.

Well - let’s see how much we can post before getting killed by file sizes…
<hr noshade size=“1”>

  2. F-48/MINI40 SIZE
  4. MINIMAL COST (all balsa)
  5. Design: Ernst Zeamann (Austria)
  6. This boat: German (lost contact with builder/owner)

PHOTO OF BOAT SAILING: [ Green Tri small.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/20044222042_Green Tri small.jpg)

Cross Section: [ smF48-Boxsection-Trimaran6.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/200442220545_smF48-Boxsection-Trimaran6.jpg)

Top View 1/2 Beam: [ smF48-Boxsection-Trimaran5.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/200442220913_smF48-Boxsection-Trimaran5.jpg)

Main Hull: [ smF48-Boxsection-Trimaran4.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/2004422201713_smF48-Boxsection-Trimaran4.jpg)

Bow Section Detail: [ F48-Boxsection-Trimaran3.JPG](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/2004422201751_F48-Boxsection-Trimaran3.JPG)

Floats: [ F48-Boxsection-Trimaran2.JPG](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/2004422201832_F48-Boxsection-Trimaran2.JPG)

Front View: [ F48-Boxsection-Trimaran1.JPG](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/2004422201920_F48-Boxsection-Trimaran1.JPG)

Note - some views had to be reduced to fit file size limits. If interested, email me. No info on sail sizes, however you could use the GHOST TRAIN dimensions for starting points. This specific boat was built in two (2) weeks by owner.

<hr noshade size=“1”>

  2. F-48/MINI40 SIZE
  4. MINIMAL COST (Foam Construction Recommended)
  5. Design: Jean Margail (France)
  6. This boat: Currently under construction by me - but others are also building. See website. <center>http://water.resist.free.fr/</center>

Side View: [ WRTm40voilure.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/2004422203316_WRTm40voilure.jpg)

Cross Beams & Front View: [ WRTm40bras.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/2004422203412_WRTm40bras.jpg)

Float & Main Hull: [ WRTm40coque.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/2004422203452_WRTm40coque.jpg)

My Boat (under construction) with Marblehead Sail For Layout Locations: [ smF-48HTWfull.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/200442220392_smF-48HTWfull.jpg)

Arnaud (Belgium?)- another builder: [ Arnaud_01.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/2004422203938_Arnaud_01.jpg)

Note: enlarged sets of hull cross section template available. Email me.

<u>FREE: </u>There are also free plans available for download for <font color=“red”>“GHOST TRAIN” </font id=“red”>- a U.K. design by Andy McCulloch. They can be found on Alan Hayes website.

<u>NOT FREE: </u>Another design is <font color=“red”>“PULSE” </font id=“red”>which is also a U.K. design by Mike Friend - and IS A PROVEN U.K. NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP WINNER !! There is a minimal royalty fee for these lines payable to the designer ($7.00 US) but I can only sell these in Canda and US. Anyone else interested, please email me and I will give you email for a fellow in the U.K. who can sell drawings to you.

Photo of “PULSE”: [ smPulse.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/2004422205350_smPulse.jpg)

In addition, the following boats are available for purchase:

  1. <font color=“red”>“NIGHTMARE” </font id=“red”>- by Ian Sammis (Oklahoma USA)
    Short kits, and he has sold a ready-to-sail boat.

  2. Anthony Wright - U.K. Builder/designer. Photos of both his cat and tri are on the forum under different topic. Short kits, full kits, or ready to sail.

  3. Peter Birch - Australia short kits, full kits, or ready-to sail.

For those seeking a smaller platform, I also have <font color=“red”>“PULSE” </font id=“red”>lines at 1 Meter (see above of purchasing info), and am finishing up my own design <font color=“red”>“IMPULSE” </font id=“red”>and those lines will be available for free. If design is successful as prototype, I am considering selling main hull and float as glass covered foam. More later, but first 5 sets will go at my material costs. Maybe $50.00 a set (???) <font size=“1”><u>ESTIMATED</u></font id=“size1”>.

Unfortunately, I have too much going on to spend any time on this now BUT I believe that an inexpensive retractable foiler can be done for the reasons mentioned in Foiler Design II below but it will require a third channel and servo.That will be my focus as time goes by-I believe it is possible and will work hard to prove it. I’ll know more as I finish and sail the X3(after the CKTrainers and F100). Getting a big company involved that could mass produce components would be one way to cut costs and still have a top notch performer.

Peter Birch says his boats already meet these qualifications…

I think the idea has great merit and will work on it in a few months and think about it when I have time; adding stuff here as I can.

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

Well Matt - there you go,…

I’ve given you multiple actual ideas and existing free plans - not theories. With the exception of Peter or Ian weighing in, so much for any useful information from Doug. I certainly would think something from what I’ve presented, or what Ian or Peter add to the list would be an acceptable platform design from which to start. I am not interested in “Design By Committee”.

I’m shrugging my shoulders and raising palms toward the sky. What else can I do, except make them too?

By the way - if you feel an IOM rig is too high aspect ratio for the MultiONE, nothing stops anyone from using the F-48 platform with it’s extra 0.2 meter length and beam!

Please feel free to criticize the presented ideas - in public - and leave them open for debate.

Just received an e-mail from a member telling me that his mini40 is for sale. This boat is the current champion. It is for sale for $750AUD complete with two rigs and radio gear.


Peter, can you post some pics, plans whatever of the boats you sail?

Luff 'em & leave 'em.

The idea is fine. The concept though of “out of the box” sailing doesn’t work with multihull’s unfortunately. It takes stick time to sail them properly. New people into the class can/will get frustrated with multi’s until they learn what not to do.

Sorry if it sounds negative but it is a point that has never been touched on. As was mentioned in other topics, multihull people don’t tell prospective buyers about the negatives.

On the positive side, the negatives of multihull sailing are far out-weighed by the positives.

I think that multihull sailing (realistically) is never going to have the following of the monohull. Multi’s as we all know need 100% concentration or you lose them very quickly. It is an uphill battle to try and get monohull sailors converted.

The BMMA is doing well, we are going OK over here. The class is hugh in France. The group that needs the most assistance is the US. It seems to me that the main problem there is the distances that would needed to be travelled to get boats sailing together. One boat here and one there won’t help the class, and being a GUNNA does nothing either.

As Tranth said to me once, multihull sailing is great but it gets pretty boring if you are the only boat on the water.

As I said before the idea is right, but what a new class needs is for people to put there hand up and build boats cheaply that can be on “consignment” to start with as a way of having boats available now. Strike when the irons hot,and have boats available to buy then. This idea will have some more merit when there are people around who have sailed a boat, and don’t want to buy one, preferring to build there own.


The thing about foilers that makes work on them and research into them important is that a Bradfield type foiler can be sailed by a beginner in strong wind with no previous multihull experience!
I am convinced that a foiler can be built with low enough cost to be the ideal beginers boat because of its forgiving nature and extraordinary stability-best of any multihull…
As I build the X3 everything is being looked at from a standpoint of increasing simplicity and reducing cost and as at least one other person is working on this type now results should be forthcoming in a few months as to the bottom line cost wise-
stability wise the answer is known now.

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

How can a beginner build his own multi???


if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it!


Wis, if you read the original criteria for the boat proposed by Matt it was for a READY TO SAIL multihull.What I’m saying is that I believe that a foiler meets all the criteria now except for cost and that with some work the cost constraints for a ready to sail foiler can be achieved.
During the 6 month plus two boat testing of the F3 we had numerous individuals who had never even sailed(anything) before sail that boat the very first time in strong wind with no trouble!
One of the first F3’s was sold to an 85 year old man who had never sailed a multihull before and sailed it 20 MPH the first time-no problem except a near heart attack(his words) from the extraoridinary speed-no capsize no pitchpole. Again, sailed the very first time in strong winds. You simply can’t match that with a conventional multihull.
The trick is: can we find a way to build a ready to sail version inexpensively ?–I think so ,but time will tell.

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

From the WATER RESIST website of Jean Margail (France) - this happens to be a 2 Meter hull. The F-48/Mini40 follows same principles, but is (obviously) shorter.

Paper Drawings to Templates: [ build01.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/2004423105833_build01.jpg)

Templates transferred to Foam: [ build02.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/2004423105846_build02.jpg)

Deck Template w/Holes for Electronics: [ build14.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/20044231127_build14.jpg)

Hacksaw Hot Wire Cutter: [ build03.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/2004423105859_build03.jpg)

2 Halves Rough Shaped: [ build04.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/2004423105928_build04.jpg)

Cross Sections Template Plans: [ build05.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/2004423105958_build05.jpg)

Begin To Shape Hulls: [ build06.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/200442311014_build06.jpg)

Hulls Rough Shaped to Sections: [ build07.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/200442311028_build07.jpg)

Transfer & Cut Cross Section Half Templates: [ build08.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/200442311043_build08.jpg)

Press Templates into Foam: [ build10.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/200442311115_build10.jpg)

Remove Templates and Shape To Match Lines: [ build11.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/200442311131_build11.jpg)

Fine Sand to Fair Lines: [ build09.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/20044231113_build09.jpg)

Faired Hull - Both Sides Glued Together: [ build12.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/200442311146_build12.jpg)

Beginning Of Glass Cloth Wrap: [ build15.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/200442311220_build15.jpg)

Finished Glass Hull (still needs trimming): [ build16.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/dick lemke/200442311231_build16.jpg)

Currently working (slowly) with Jean to translate and provide a written set of steps to follow with these images. Most are easy to understand. Email with questions.

Doug -
I could be wrong - but I seem to interpret Wis asking HOW to build a multihull - nothing was asked about your foilers, or their stability.

Nothing in Matt’s initial post indicates this has to be an off-the-shelf boat. It just has a price point that was set.

Could we stay on topic and not wander off into yet another group of posts as to “why” your foiler is so great? Please?

a bit off topic, but I remember a CK trainer…[:p]


if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it!


  1. see 2 below-Matt said under #1: The boat will cost no more then 250 pounds READY TO SAIL excluding radio gear.
    He also said that"… we need to design between us…"
    My contribution to the design process is everthing I know about foilers which I fervantly believe can meet ALL the criteria NOW except for cost.And that with effort “from all of us” cost can be brought dowm allowing a boat to be designed that is probably more “beginner friendly” than any other current multihull design.

  1. Under Matts criteria it is my understanding that the words he used “READY TO SAIL” mean a boat that dosn’t need to be built; a boat that would be suitable for begining multihullers that have no previous multihull experience.
    I don’t think he was referring to a boat to be BUILT by a beginner having no previous experience building anything :THAT IS ANOTHER SUBJECT ENTIRELY!
    The idea here ,as I understand it, is to design a boat that can be made available READY TO SAIL requiring no building other than possible installation of radio gear. This is NOT a kit ,or a boat built from scratch:it is a ready to sail boat. This concept is important because if the criteria Matt outlined can be met then there will be a first class, high speed ,high performance multihull available to the masses at under $500 US.And all the masses will have to do is install a radio and sail!!!
    I don’t know if we can do it or not but it is an intriguing challenge.

Wis, not sure of your point but three Ck Trainers have been built and are nearly ready to sail; stay tuned under new classes for pictures.
Also as I said before I won’t be able to work on this new boat other than contributing ideas for a while; but the work I am doing has direct relevance to whether or not what Matt proposes is feasible-whichI think it is! And as a READY TO SAIL boat not a kit or scratch-built…

edt:ad info
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

Doug, I thought I was off topic…but …

My question was: “how to build a multi?”, again you are talking about foilers?? did I ask that question? NO…again you are going off-topic!!

Dick, thanks for the clear response…and pics!! A pic is still worth 1000 words (at least for me)


if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it!


Wis you definitely are off topic! I tried to answer your question within the framework of Matt’s original criteria which cleearly refer to a READY TO SAIL multihull! ; NOT a kit or scratch built boat; this is a topic referring to the DESIGN of a boat that would meet the criteria Matt mentioned in the first post-not a discertation on “how to” building instructions for a beginner-as helpful as they may be to some they are definitely off topic based on Matts original post…

Matt, can you clarify this?!

edt:add request
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

Well -

if you aren’t making them, and I’m not making them, and Peter’s isn’t any good, and all the “Proven” designs are no good, and you are too busy, my guess either this topic is dead,… or “someone” will need to build their own!

Try to stay with the topic and concept. Why do we need to re-invent the wheel to get a boat that doesn’t cost much? You (Doug) keep saying how expensive averything is, and you still keep coming back to a foiler. HINT: NO FOILER ! OK?

If you must insist on foiler this and foiler that, I’m out of this discussion. I’m tired of hearing about your foilers, and how easy they are to build. How about a “FOILER FREE ZONE” for once on this forum?

I think it is critical to be able to discuss the concepts involved as outlined by Matt:

  1. a design for a READY TO SAIL boat(subject to Matt’s clarification)
  2. a boat that can easily be sailed in 1-25k w/o trouble by a beginner.
    Sorry, but at this point in time I don’t know of any boat that meets these criteria better than a Bradfield or Ketterman type foiler-but I’m willing to listen to ideas.
    I think we do the original concept Matt had a disservice by simply saying that one important segment of multihull design can’t be considered.

If design considerations aren’t part of this discussion then Peter Birch’s quote to me for a ready to sail Australian mini 40 with three rigs for around $400AU wins HANDS DOWN!
Of course, you also have to believe that an aluminum and fibeglass boat will be high performance and easily sailed by a beginner in conditions up to 25mph! And it may be true-at least it is/may be available NOW.

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing