What I learned from casting my own lead bulb

Rcsailing.net General Discussion
1

1.- It doesnt matters how many episodes of "Hands on History" youve seen. Acceptit, you haven?t learned anything from them

2.- When you make your mold out of plaster (or any other water based material) you have to let it dry for a couple of days before pouring your lead in

3.- Lead liquifies easily.

4.- Lead solidifies rapidily after you poured it

5.- Lead ramains hot for a looong time after it hardens.

6.- If you mold if not completely dry, it will boils and some lead will land on YOUR hands (see No. 2).

7.- It will take 3 1/2 years to shape the resulting parts into something vaguely similar to a bulb.

8.- Buy one already casted.[B)]

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<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by mholguin

2.- When you make your mold out of plaster (or any other water based material) you have to let it dry for a couple of days before pouring your lead in

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At the very least 2 days-2weeks is better and heat it up in the oven before pouring.
Don

Don Case
 Vancouver Island
3

I couldn’t agree more… Although I don’t think I’ll do another one if I can find who sells them or who can make’em for me.

I’m making my first RC sailboat from scratch, just for the fun of it, but that experience I don’t wanna live again…

Hum… Now the sails… 9 paneled radial? [:-shake]

4

John Hanks *(J class sec.) told me that he made a mold out of plaster and left it in the oven at 250 degrees for 48 hours and it STILL had moisture… and he is in Arizona! Sheeesh.

I pour lead about once a week, and it is nasty dangerous stuff and I am set up to handle it.
I always encourage anyone melting lead to please reseach it first, because of all the hazards. The slag that you scrape off the top… is incredibly toxic, and a bona fide Hazardous Material. (HAZMAT) and is required by the EPA to be returned to a foundry. The last guy that told me he was pouring said “I just flipped it out on my driveway” [:-bigeyes2]

Please be careful.

www.LudwigRCYachts.com

5

Thanks for the heads-up. Like I said, this (I hope) is a one time deal. I needed a 1 pound bulb for a RG-65 sailboat I’m building. Here In the Dominican Rep. I cannot find a bulb for sale, so I went to do it myself. Next time I’ll go to a foundry instead. Or maybe you can cast me the next one, uh? [:I]

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<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>I needed a 1 pound bulb for a RG-65 sailboat I’m building. Here In the Dominican Rep. I cannot find a bulb for sale<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>

You just did not look in the right places. Climate Models has several pre cast bulbs ready to go. All you need to do is call us up and ask what we have in stock.

As for plaster molds and pouring molten lead in to them, You may as well just point a shotgun at yourself and pull the trigger.
Any moisture in the plaster will send liquid lead at you faster than you can even imagine.
Being cheap and doing it yourself is one thing, but some things are best left to those who know how to handle it. If you pour lead at all, you better have a fresh air breathing apparatus like this before you even start.

Visit www.climatemodels.com

7

<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by ClimateModels

<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>I needed a 1 pound bulb for a RG-65 sailboat I’m building. Here In the Dominican Rep. I cannot find a bulb for sale<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>

You just did not look in the right places. Climate Models has several pre cast bulbs ready to go. All you need to do is call us up and ask what we have in stock.

As for plaster molds and pouring molten lead in to them, You may as well just point a shotgun at yourself and pull the trigger.
Any moisture in the plaster will send liquid lead at you faster than you can even imagine.
Being cheap and doing it yourself is one thing, but some things are best left to those who know how to handle it. If you pour lead at all, you better have a fresh air breathing apparatus like this before you even start.

Visit www.climatemodels.com
<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>

1.- I wasn’t even looking to buy bulb; My intention was to make myself as much as possible.

2.- I already stated on my first post that after all it was a pretty dumb idea on the first place.

3.-Without denying the high toxicity levels of lead and other by-products produced by melting it, your comment on shooting myself with a shotgun instead of dealing with lead is completely out of proporsion. Whoever is older than 30 years old had been already exposed to extreme levels of pollutans like radiation, lead from tin cans and paints, DDT amongst others. So melting and pouring 1 pound of lead (no matter how stupid that might be) won’t kill anyone. If on the other hand I dedicate my life to produce bulbs on a daily basis (which, by the way, I don’t have any intention on doing), that’s another story.

If your intentions were to caution other new comers (like me) like Larry Ludwig did, respectfully and supportive, then I apologize, maybe my english is not that good after all, and I took it the wrong way. If not, please don’t be so alarmistic. We already have enough things to worry about.

The more I practice, the luckiest I get.

8

This is not the first time we have had this discussion, and I am certain it will not be the last.

Home building encourages a lot of people to try to do stuff like this. There are a lot of toxic or semi toxic materials involved in our sport. Besides lead vapors, it is not a good idea to breathe carbon dust from sanding carbon fiber (extreme lung cancer risk), exposure to epoxy can cause sesitization, The fumes from melting foam can also be toxic, the list goes on.

What responsibility do the organizing bodies have in promoting safety? Is this really a matter of saying “anyone who tries this needs to be smart enough to learn about the risks for themselves”? With the advent of the internet, you can find tons of info about techniques for pouring lead or working with other toxic materials and little if any of this info ever mentions the hazards.

Certainly we as individuals owe it to ourselves and our sport to share information in a responsible way. But the organizing authorities often set the tone for the whole sport. The AMA is much more vocal about being certified and making sure that everyone knows about safety within their organization. As a consequence when you visit the flight line, you really get a sense that these guys are thinking safety first. While their systems are not perfect, they seem to do a good job of policing newcomers to make sure that people know all the protocalls before they are allowed to turn on their transmitter.

I’d like to see the model yachting community get more safety conscience. I think our leadership (the AMYA, RYA, etc) needs to put forth a stronger effort to promote safety. I’d like to hear them issuing strict and public warnings about handling molten lead to their members and making sure this is included in any building guides. Same for all the other toxic substances we deal with. And even though safety at the pond is not a huge concern, I think there are things that could be done there as well.

  • Will

Will Gorgen

9

Peter, Will

Come on guys, I think you being a little overly dramatic. Now maybe it’s me, but I think if someone is seriously considering casting lead, using epoxy, or cutting carbon, they are aware of the safety issues. Have faith in the common scene of the individual.

Moderator
-Dan

10

mholguin,
Perhaps my post was a bit extreme, but when you have been around the hobby as long as I have, and seen what I have, you would understand.

What I was referring to was, that if there is any moisture in a plaster mold when you pour molten lead in to it, it can explode in to thousands of boiling hot pellets of lead that will fly at you about the same as a shotgun blast.
Do not take this warning as being alarmist or over done. I have witnessed first hand a modeler who has been horribly disfigured and scarred for life by flying molten lead.
He spent 8 months recovering and went through 4 major plastic surgeries to rebuild and get skin to grow back on his face and arms. He was wearing safety glasses so at least he was not blind, but had he not have had the glasses he most certainly would have been. 10 years later he still has children ask ?Mommy, what?s wrong with that mans face ??

A beginner reading your post might think that there is not all that much to pouring his own keels and go out and try it in his garage, or worse in his kitchen.
Your point about any 30-year-old already being exposed to toxins is fine, but lead vapor and dust is accumulative. It never goes away.
If children are exposed to lead fumes or dust it will be with them for the rest of their lives. Would you smoke a cigarette around a baby?

I think my point has a lot of merit, and the original comment stands. Pouring your own lead without the proper equipment and precautions in place is just stupid.

Peter Richards
www.climatemodels.com

Visit www.climatemodels.com

11

Dan, I am not getting in to a pissing contest here, but did you actually read your own post?
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Have faith in the common scene of the individual.
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Please…

Common sense? What the hell is that? There is no such thing as Common sense these days. It went out with chivalry, and stepping aside to let the elderly pass on a sidewalk.
If you want some fun reading on the ?lack? of common sense, the Darwin awards should entertain you.

http://www.darwinawards.com/

Pouring your own keels in a plaster mold, puts you on about the same level as a good number of the people in these stories.

Peter R.

Visit www.climatemodels.com

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<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>
I think my point has a lot of merit, and the original comment stands. Pouring your own lead without the proper equipment and precautions in place is just stupid.

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I could never argue you the last part. You are absolutely right about pouring lead on a moist mold. I DID IT. It DID explode, and ALMOST ALL that flied from it, landed on my HAND. Luckily everything that flew were small bits so no big burns resulted (remember it was a 1 pound bulb I was casting, in two halves).

Will I do it again? NO.

Reading my original post, you have to be almost brain-dead to think it is easy, specially when my closing argument is to buy next time.

Finally, thanks again for calling me stupid, again. I’m begining to like it…

I’m not trying to diminish your warnings. those come from what it seems to be a long experience (which I’m not claiming to have, not in a million years!!!) They are absolutely valid. But I still think its a bit blown out of proportion.

Last from my part on this topic, I have a ton of other questions to post (none of them related to melting ANYTHING).

The more I practice, the luckiest I get.

13

<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>
Pouring your own keels in a plaster mold, puts you on about the same level as a good number of the people in these stories.
<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>

Sorry, I know I said I wasn’t going to write anymore on this topic, but couldn’t resist…

This surely is going to be a good year from me… first called stupid twice, on the same forum, same day, then nominated for a DarwinAwards… Oh man…

The more I practice, the luckiest I get.

14

Relax mholquin. The boys really do have your best interests at heart, and everyone elses. Sometimes the message gets muddled in the cold and toneless world of text on a screen. Sometimes the boys are as subtle as, well, an atom bomb. But they are experienced guys with a love of the sport of sailing and our rc/building hobby, and, through this forum, we all get help and encouragement.

Please stick around, and tell us more about your project. Welcome to the forum.

Muzza

15

ok people.
before this gets way out of hand. i would suggest asking question, before pour any lead. i have been making my own bulbs for 10 years. and they are not real good. but they work. the first bulb mold i used . i read that you need to let the mold cure. while the is cured in 24 hour. and i pour the next day, BANG, the mold exploded. andi was close to getting hurt real bad. i went to a show. and they said. to bake the plaster in an oven for 6 hour at 350. this will take all the miosture out. then i got the mold to last.
pouring the lead should be done outside. there is fumes involved. if you want to do one bulb. i would suggest buying one. you can get a sails ects bulb. or climateboatworks bulb. and both work well. i have an epoch. and i am not upset with it. i think it works good…
if you are looking at more than one bulb. you might want to ask some experts
cougar

long live the cup and cris dickson

16

Peter,

Yes I have read the Darwin awards.

With all do respect, casting lead in a plaster mold is very feasible, when armed with the proper knowledge.

For example Google “lost wax casting” it?s a method artist use to cast metals like gold, silver, aluminum, brass, and bronze. Basically they make a wax model of the part they want to cast, and then make a plaster mold from the wax model. After the plaster has set, the melt the wax out and then dry the mold before they cast the metal.

I have cast a lead bulb using this method.

Let me say this first, do not, try this at home, unless you are going to use the proper techniques.

Make you bulb plug, I used wood turned on a lathe

Make the mold using plaster, there is also special concrete like substances used for this

Ok this is the important part. The mold must now be dried. Some people will do this in an oven at home, but I went all out and did it just like an artist friend told me. I let the mold set in a dry place for a week. I then took it to my friend who has a kiln in his basement, and he finished the drying process. Ok this if from memory so bare with me. The temperature in the kiln was raised slowly, 50-75 degrees per hour, and every 200 degrees, or so the temperature was held constant for 2 or 3 hours to allow they entire mold to heat up. This continued until the kiln reached 1100 degrees I think. The
Temperature was held there for 48 hours, and then was slowly allowed to cool down.

I think all together it took 5 or 6 days to dry the mold.

My friend helped me with the casting, as he was skilled at it. In the morning we put the mold in the oven and heated it up to around 550 degrees. In the afternoon we took the mold out of the kiln directly outside to the center of the yard and cast the bulb.

When the lead and mold cooled down, the bulb came out and it looked like it came out of a milled metal mold.

So basically what I’m saying is yes if you don’t know how to do it properly, it can be dangerous. But if you are armed with the proper knowledge, it might be the best way to get what you want.

Modersator
-Dan

17

<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by Muzza

Please stick around, and tell us more about your project. Welcome to the forum.

Muzza
<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>

Muzza:

?'ll stick around, don?t worry…

I tried to send some pics, but couldn?t… and I don’t have an available web site to upload them, if someone is interested, I’ll email them.

The hull mold was a fun ride, however, instead of planking it, I used masking tape… some filler and a lot of sanding (that was actually done in an auto repair shop) it ended up quite well I might add…

The more I practice, the luckiest I get.

18

I’ve been using this site to host images, and to link to them from this forum.

http://imageshack.us/index.php

Here is how the image displays on the forum after cutting and pasting the link they give you. You can also choose to display a clickable thumbnail here instead.


Muzza

19

Thanks Muzza!

Here it goes:

Mold:

Hull:

The more I practice, the luckiest I get.

20

and we all cool down!!!

Mod message

PS: I use common sense every day…as for Darwin Awards…not many European in there…wondering GRIN!..cheers

-Wis

_/ if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it! _


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