I have created a new discussion group for the Victor Model Products America’s Cup Class boats. My goal is to provide a place for owners and builders of these boats to share ideas, and perhaps eventually create enough interest to organize an official class. If you own or have built one of these boats, (Il Moro, America3 or Spirit of '92) please visit the sight and share your ideas. This could be an excellent resource for these boats.
The address is:
Being a builder (I am in the middle of construction currently) myself I would really appreciate a group like this. If you know anyone who has one of these boats, please spread the word.
Why not include the two older boats? It is unlikely they are as fast, but I bet there are a lot of them out there.
I’m not sure what you mean by older boats? The reason I’ve included these three is because their designs are pretty similar (with some minor differences in keel/rudder shape and deck features) and they will provide a good platform for the formation of a class in the future. I believe they all use the same sails and have the same weight (within ounces).
Also, Dick Lemke has been kind enough to put together a preliminary set of class rules for the boats, and I have added it to the discussion group site under ‘files’. Feel free to have a look.
I was speaking of the Aussie 2 and old Stars and Stripes.
I understand–you mean the 12 meter type versions. I didn’t include them just because I thought it would be hard to establish rules in the long run with the two different types (Australia 2 and newer America3 for example)because their configurations are so different. Also, I happen to own the America3 model, so naturally that’s what I focused on. I assume performance on these boats is very different too, but I am only guessing. Anyone ever sail one of the 12 meter designs vs. an Il Moro or America3?
You might ask David Goebel, he had the Assie 2. As I recall it wasn’t extremely fast. I have an old version of the MRP Voyager, even with the “pregnant whale” hull it still moves out pretty well.
I communicated via email with a guy in Arizona that has been doing some racing of the ‘Voyager’ (MRP dist. by Horizon Hobbies) and Victor 12 meter style boats. They are sailing with the West Valley RC Mariners. I don’t know if they’ve competed against the America3 and other modern-style boats. I believe that they have competed in their club’s one meter sport class regattas. However, I don’t think they’ve had much success against the Seawinds and Northwinds in that fleet. (I think this is documented on the AMYA web site under ‘how they compare’ if I remember correctly). On the Victor web site, it lists the Australia II model as weighing 10lbs, whereas the America3 is 8, so it sounds as if there’s a weight advantage at the very least.
i have an assie II form victor. and i take offense to sombody saying that the boat is not fast. I have sail it against us imeters and IOM and beat them all. if you want to create a division form victor included these to old boats. they are fun to drive and with very litlle twicking they can be fast, not as fast as a us imeter or an IOM but I have keeped up with an amercas 3 and il moro. if have also hooked 3 new sailors , but giving them the transmitters and walking away. know full well that the boat as design will not sink and will sail forward. my wife learn how to sail usine ausie II , and when she move up to the IOM class she noticed a diffenece and learn how to cope . so dont exclude these 2 old boats. i will not give up my old aussie II. it is a fun boat
To echo Dick’s comments, I would say the real reason that I suggested keeping the 12 meters and the IACC style boats separate is that the boats are SO different in design, that it would be hard to make the two competitive, let alone create a viable class with both.
I have never sailed one of the 12 meter boats, and to be honest, I have not sailed my America3 yet–I just got the electronics for the boat and am in the process of fabricating the rigging. However, there are some who have sailed both, and my comments were simply restating what was stated by others.
The discussion forum by the way was not created solely to promote this proposed class (though that was certainly part of it), but most importantly to provide a place for owners of these boats to share ideas and information on building and sailing them. At first the forum was set up just for the IACC style boats, but after discussing it with a couple of the ‘12 meter’ skippers, the group became more of a forum for the non-Soling Victor one meter boats.
Dick is right, my opinion is that if a class or classes is ever organized for these boats, it would be wise to separate them by type, as they are far too different to put in one. As I understand it–as with all Victor Models, they share some construction aspects, but the hulls, keel and sailplan couldn’t be more different.
What I am finding is that many who have the IACC style boats are opting to simply construct them as US One Meters. I am unaware of how competitive the Victor boats would be (with US One Meter rigs) with other designs, but it’s an interesting and low cost entry into that class I would imagine.
I didn’t intend on saying anyone’s boat is slow or fast, just that the IACC and 12 meter boats are very different, both in performance and in design.
i guess i misunderstood what you where trying to do or say. what i was saying was that the victor kit of australia II was competive with the us imeter around here. the IOM are just overpowering to it. the kit is easy to build , but now that i know which way you want this class to go the kit would not compete. america3 is indeed a very nice boat, and fun to sail. there is a club near me , where 4 ppl boat the kit and each person modified a bit to find out what was best for the hull. when you say IACC boats are you talking luna rossa, oracle,alinghi, black majic style boats?
When I say ‘IACC Style’ it’s just a quick way to identify those models in the Victor line that resemble the more ‘modern’ International America’s Cup Class boats. These would be IL Moro, Spirit of '92 and America3. They tend to have the longer keels with the balast bulbs on them, as opposed to the Aussie II and Stars and Stripes models.
I’m glad that you understand what I was trying to get at with my earlier posts. Once again, the Yahoo group does support both types of boats–IACC and 12 meter, but as far as the idea of forming a class is concerned, we were thinking of just the IACC style because they are similar to one another in design.
As far as the performance of the 12 meter boats, I have no experience sailing them, but I have heard they can be difficult to handle in higher winds because of their shallow keel. I can neither confirm or deny that though.
One of our group members modified his Spirit of '92 model to compete against ODOM’s where he lives. I think he found that with the ODOM rig and rudder, the boat was competitive on most points of sail with them, which is good to know.
The most appealing thing about the Cup Class boats to me is the price factor. I am building my boat bone stock to start with, (with an ODOM rudder because I couldn’t seem to get the kit rudder to get a good airfoil shape) and with electronics the boat is less than $300. Not bad for a one meter boat. As I sail it and find things I want to change I may experiment with different rigs and things, but for now the stock boat will be fine.
If you haven’t already, come on over to the Cup Class Yacht discussion forum and join the group. We’d love to have you on board.
thanks i will , I am a big fan of the Iacc class. I was lucking enough to be in newport to see Canada 1 vs austrailia II. in july on 83 that was when i realy got intrested in yacthing