I have to say a few words on a couple of aspects here…
Firstly, a big thankyou to Dick Lemke for the welcome and helping hand that he extended when I joined and was asking questions about wingmasts/sails.
‘Disabled’, you need to consider that communication is a two way thing, send and receive; whilst you may not have meant it to be an attack it was clearly perceived as such and not just by Dick. Also, I’m slightly confused about the strength of the opinions you express, for example writing-off Ghost Train, on a topic that you have such little experience or knowledge of. I always cast my net wide when looking for advice and information but in the end its experience that shows me what was valid and what wasn’t.
That said, your reference to British humour suggests you are resident in the UK. If that is the case, can I extend an invitation to the next meeting of the British Model Multihull Association, which will take place at Walpole Park, Gosport on March 21st. If you attend you’ll be able to see (and probably try) a mini40 trimaran and meet with people who have experiience of building and sailing the boats. By the way, one of the top UK multihull sailors sells hulls/crossbeams/etc mouldings for catamarans and trimarans and another produces sails so building shortcuts are available.
Disabled, would you like to tell us your location in the world, so that we may be better able to help you in your quest to build and sail a quality Trimaran.
@Dick Lemke
The blaming and finger pointing seems to be much more on your side - than on Ernst Zemanns side - as he didn´t even mention your name.
But as we say here at Hungary (that´s where I am from):
“Don´t make an elephant out of a mouse!” -
Of course I want informations from several sides but it is still me, who judges - what I prefer or what I don`t want to believe!
This IDEALIST simply seems to be a thorn in your side, that you are unable to pull out!
And viewing your strong and strange emotions from the outside, I´m just wondering what YOU did to this gentleman - and why you continuosly try to MAKE him wrong!
Now I will leave you alone again and built my own Mk.VII trimaran!
And if I am in the right mood, I may even show you some pics of it - sometimes -…-
But I prefer to get my experience myself!
You are in Hungary? - Is there a reason why there is no multihull information from that country ? I have tried a search and find very little to nothing for Hungary - at least for the little boats. It certainly would seem that “someone” from that country would have tried building/sailing a multihull - after all - the free designs have been around for quite some time and surely someone would have given them a try. Unfortunately, I do not have any r/c sailing contacts in that part of the world, but others might.
As for Ernst - he is well known for his dishonesty - and we have had several exchanges of unkind nature. Still he refuses to accept any blame for his failures at selling boats - and since no one would pay for his plans, he offers them to unknowing new sailors who see “something for free”. Until Ernst has the desire to actually acknowledge most (if not all) issues of his selling were his fault - the guy and I have nothing to speak of.
I mentioned in my previous post - how many iterations of his design does he now have out there, and how can there be so many different designs produced without any of the former ones having even been tried/tested/proven in actual competition?
As Nautibuoy from the U.K. points out, I’m sure a similar post to the British Model Multihull Association might provide you with proof of the GHOST TRAIN’s design and competitiveness. If you wish to PM me off-line, I can provide a few names for direct contact.
Since you say you have never built or sailed before why would you decide to take on such a challenge and decide to build one of the hardest and more complicated designs - be it Ernst’s designs or other well proven designs? Help me to understand. You say you are a beginner, yet you want to build a trimaran. That is like saying that because you can nail to boards together, you want to build a hotel? If you are disabled as you say - wouldn’t it make more sense to build a boat tha remains (more or less) upright and afloat so it can be sailed back to you - rather than counting on a friend who might have to wade or swim to retrieve a multihull? Since I have no idea of your disabilities, I can only suggest based on what you asked. I still suggest you stay with a monohull for your very first build, and to compensate for whatever it is that causes your disability and requires wheelchair confinement. Self-Experience can be expensive - while education, and experience of others can save you money and time in your quest.
As you say - proceed to build your MK-VII trimaran, but what will you do when half completed and the MK IX is introduced?
If you wish to continue to defend Mr. Zeamann and his dishonest actions, this is a great forum in which to do it. I’m happy to provide examples of the type of person that Ernst has proven to be. Perhaps you will soon see his dishonesty - but as a newbie to both r/c sailing and to multihulls - I guess you can find that out for yourself. If this is the experience you want to see for yourself, that is.
‘Disabled’, now I’m confused, you’re in Hungary but you use allusions to British humour? Do you know the UK well?
Where in Hungary are you - I have a friend who regularly travels out there on business?
Presumably you’ll be unable to make the Gosport event; that’s a shame as after something of a hiatus there seems to be something of a resurgence of interest in multihulls over here with Mike Dann and Robbie Nevitt leading the way. Mike is the guy who produces hull and crossbeam mouldings (and generally explores the design envelope) and I would be happy to put you in touch with him? Mike knows his stuff - he seems to win most of the events. Here’s a link to a clip of one of Mike’s boats:
Dick’s counsel suggesting caution about taking on a Tri as your first boat is, from my own personal experience, sound. I returned to model sailing just a few years ago, having previously sailed 36in restricted boats (without RC) in the 70’s. I was familiar with the principles of sailing and could sail a borrowed RC monohull OK but when I took on the Trimaran it was quite different and much more difficult and I’m still far from getting the best from my boat, though Mike, Robbie and co. help. Capsizes do happen and are quite problematic without the support of a ‘rescue’ boat.
When I look back on my initial interest in multihulls I took a similar approach to you and sought information from sources, such as this forum, on the internet but with hindsight the most valuable piece of information that I gleaned was about the British Model Multihull association and that led me to attend one of their events - actually seeing, sailing and talking to the people there was worth far more than all of the internet sources.
Hey Ray - Thanks for that post. I must have stumbled over that one, as it was new to me! Wow - great speed. I know it was a smaller rig for heavier air - but I was very impressed with Mike’s design. There is absolutely NO “bows down” sailing attitude of the boat when it decides to take off. Even the momentary loss of control showed no tendency to bury the leeward bow like so many designs manage to do. Mike (Dann) should be proud of that one. Next time I write him, I’ll have to inquire about the possible purchase of a set of glass hulls. I am truly impressed.
I think that sometimes we get caught up in too narrow or skinny of hulls, and while they “float” just fine - or sail OK in light/medium air - the attributes of Mike’s boat demonstrate a very deep knowledge of how a boat like this performs in the heavier stuff.
For other readers of this thread - this is the speed possible, and the need for a quick-acting sail winch and even faster fingers! Probably a great example of why these are sort of boats are suggested for experienced builders and experienced sailors - and not for "beginners." :scared:
Thanks for the video link. I have added it to my library.
Warmest regards from “over here”. :zbeer:
Dick
Oh - and I also concur with Ray - if you want information try the French or the British as they have seemingly lead the way in top race finishes, and most of their designs are “Race Proven”.
I think they reinforce the points about being tricky to sail and the necessity for a rescue boat but at the same time just how much fun can be had.
If you look through the clips in chronological order (including the one in my previous post) you can pick out some of the developments that Mike has made over just 3-4years as a result of sailing and winning.
in the first clip of your last post is a dark blue cat (Sail #75) and am wondering if you know who it is and if you can put me in touch with the owner?
It is the first video I’ve seen of a catamaran that seems to be under control and sailing well. Since I have a set of cat hulls in closet that I’ve been working on and off for a period of time, I have a few questions I’d pose to the owner/builder regarding location of equipment, overall sailing weight, and distance for mast and baords from bow back. Also his choice of sail winch.
If you can put me in touch, I would certainly appreciate it. Since I hadn’t seen any video of catamaran configurations sailing, I had little interest in spending time building. Now, seeing the possibility of on-water acceptable performance (and manners) I am again enthused to leave the world of three hulls and try two.
You can PM me with his email address - of I can PM you with mine. Appreciate your assistance in making the connection if possible.
Hi Ernst, good to see you back - but I think if you want to be taken seriously by the rest of us, you might just as well sign in under your own name… for one, and not “LIE” to us for two.
Let’s see - you claim “British Humor”, you claim living in Hungary, you claim knowing nothing about boats (building or design), yet your IP and ISP come from Vienna, Austria - same as “Ernst/Idealist/Disabled”. I would seem to think that’s a lot of travel just to try to be someone else.
The IP Address is: 91.141.45.18
The host name is: 091-141-045-018.dyn.orange.at
Since I’m at work at the moment, I’ll have to wait until I get home tonight and I can bring up your "other IP Address track that I did.
I do find it humorous that while you claim (as Disabled) to know nothing about building or designing boats, a quick search on the web for Ernst/Idealist one finds self-proclaimed abilities and experiences in each of those fields in several forums. In fact as “Boatbuilder” in Webshots photo gallery, you seem to have a lot of photos considering you aren’t a designer/builder. :rolleyes:
Actually, even without running an IP check - a few of your earlier posts were written in such a way that I could instantly identify you from many previous posts as Ernst/Idealist - so anyway…
Welcome to the forum, and at least post under your “real” name if you wish to be taken seriously. Faking and lying on a forum is NOT the way to improve your image. :scared:
Saw the video of the 10 knot tri and it appears as though (according to the title) that there have been foils added to the hull to counteract the tendency to nosedive.
The smaller jib would help matters as well, wouldn’t it?
Without those fitted, I assume that the that tri has the same challenges as any other tri.
Obviously, then without a head-to-head there is no real way to say which current tri design is better, even given past results.
Have past results reflected a domination by one design based on statistical probability (i.e. 95% of the fleet is of a particular design) or by technical superiority (i.e. 5% of the fleet is of a particular design)?
Is there a quantifiable formula for successful hull design and rig layout which is a benchmark or is it predominately guesstimation?
Sorry to ask so many questions. Look forward to replies.
Hi Andrew, the boat was build and sailed by my friend Mike Dann here in the UK. Mike has been active for over a decade and has learned a lot over that time, which he incorporates into his designs and mouldings. Mike doesn’t in any way claim to have invented the foils but has borrowed ideas from some full size boat appendages.
Without the foils in the video the boat sails very well (I know because I was there that day and he started without them) but they do improve handling/performance in a blow. Mike produced a short item on the foils for the BMMA newsletter, if you PM me I’ll put you in touch with him.
I don’t think there is a magic formula and, as in so much of life, experience seems to be what counts.
