Thank you Bournville and the MYA

Thank you Bournville and the MYA for a great Presidents Day

A few words and some photos on


Thanks very much for posting this Mark. I couldn’t be there, this time not because of legs but because of car tyres, but I’m glad a good time was had by all.

I very much second these comments.

I went along all geared up to take photos and ask questions and generally improve myself. What actually happened was most of the morning was spent with Andrew T being show Bill Green’s sail panelling method. That only finished when Bill was dragged off to take part in an MYA official’s invitation race.

While this was on Andrew T, myself and a few other Footys sloped of to the far end of the pond for some experimental runs with new sails, setups or whatever. This in itself was really useful in that it allowed Andrew T to see how his weird offset rig performed and the rest of us could compare performance without the pressure of competion.

The afternoon saw us included in the under 3ft class for a couple of races. It was intesting to note that the better performing Footys were not too far behind the not so well performing Micro Magics.

The last event of the day was a 40 minute persuit race. The various classes were handicapped with the Footy’s obviously going off first. The plan was to circumnavigate the outside of every bouy on the lake and the positions taken when the 40 minutes were up. At least two things amazed me about this event 1. How on earth did anybody know who was where ? and 2. How was it that with 20 (?) or so people walking in different directions, sideways, down a curving pond side did nobody walk straight into the water ? Obviously one of life’s litte mysteries.

The persuit race worked quite well, as there were just enough of most classes of boat to have a worthwhile race within a race, even if at times it was a bit like being on the inside lane of the M42 just after a track event at Donington Park.

Anyway, thanks again Bournville for a very successful day. I expect a more complete review of the day will appear on the Bournville web site in the near future.



Yes thank you MYA and Bournville for a great day - there were certainly some raised eyebrows and amazement when the Hoyt rig was sailing rather well - it was all guess work on my part from some photos i had seen and a video from the designer - Doubting Thomas did’nt think it would work so at 4.30 the day before I decided to take up the challenge - sorry no photos


We want to see photos! I hope you’ll share what you’ve learned about that rig.


Sorry, we failed on the photo front as well…
However we had added a few short movies to the page

If I remember correctly the first one is Andy’s V12, the second is Bill and Trevor and the other three are are of Charles’s Bug


I was trying to avoid the duck and a duck, did you get any of the V-12 sporting the “square rig”?

Great photos

Ok for the benefit of thoes who were not there and Doubting Thomas who said it was rubbish (you know who you are - well least he admitted to me in private that it went rather well) please find attached or view full size from designer at

just click the Video hyperlink just above the sail diagram.

Ooooh…Aaaaahhhhh…Thanks for sharing the picture!

Not nearly as overbuilt as mine…and thus better balanced…

Hi - Doubting Thomas here . . . . .

I don’t think I actually said Garry Hoyt’s offset rig was rubbish, but I will admit to having been very sceptical as to its use on a Footy.

My main concern came from the very fact that the rig was offset. I felt that when on a Stbd tack the sail CofA would be well over the Port beam, whilst on a Port tack the sail CofA would be somewhere near the hull centreline - possibly the ideal position. At the very least I thought the handling would be asymmetric. With a conventional Bermuda or McCormack rig the CofA would still be off centre, but not by as much and both tacks would behave in the same way.

One big advantage of the offset rig is that on a run the sail CofA moves rearward relative to the mast and would probably help relieve the tendancy of a Footy to nose dive.

When explaining the CofA effect Garry cites the example of a catamaran sailing at speed with one hull out of the water and the mast and sail clearly not on the centreline. In reality, with the windward hull well up, the mast heels and the boom moves out putting the CofA at least close to the centreline of the immersed hull ( see

This next comment applies primarily more to Garry’s full size boat. If you are on a Starboard tack need to turn the offset-rig boat from tacking upwind to running downwind by going anticlockwise around the marker the boat will have to turn through at least 180 degrees minus the tacking angle before full power can be achieved with the rig “ Gull Winged “. This is because the rig can only rotate such that the boom is behind the mast and to Starboard. If going clockwise around the marker things are the same as for a conventional rig. With the conventional rigs the boom can swing either side. This turning to Port effect can be seen quite clearly in the video. Andy T’s version can, I believe, rotate both ways, so this may not be a problem for him.

After all this, Andy T’s rig did seem to work during limited trials at Bourneville. It did appear to corkscrew a few times, but this could well have been down to too much area for the gusts. (My McCormack rigged Mistralette was a real handful downwind on the far side of the track. ) Andy T certainly didn’t seem to carve great arcs through the water on one tack and not on the other - Humble Pie was duly eaten :confused:

In the mean time, for my Footys, I’ll stick with my McCormacks. With a 4mm carbon mast and a luff pocket attachment mast drag is minimal. There is no extra mast to have to fit with an aerodynamic sleeve. The rig is on the centreline so the sailing characteristics are symmetrical. Full power when turning downwind is available almost instantly. Plus, a full 480 mm rig ready to slot in weighs just 18 grams.

However, full marks to Andy T for producing a very nicely finished rig in only an evening’s work - it takes me that long to build a McCormack.


Doubting Thomas ( aka firstfooty )


Thanks you for (partially) rectifying the lack-of-pictures issue.

The rig looks good on the bench. The asymmetry wouldn’t worry me at all at a fundamental level - but I do worry about why it is there!

At our reynolds numbers, and with the imprecision of visual steering I STRONGLY believe we would be better off with relatively blunt LEs of sails. The drag might be a little greater, but the “stall” and its effects (like stopping) would be softer, later and less total.

Watch out for my luff formed round an amusing balloon shaped like a sausage dog

When you cut out the sail I feel that the instructions may not have said “cut the shape of the sail round this shoebox”, but it has given you lots of area high above the water!:smiley:

Why am I slightly reminded of the Mainsail of Peter Robinson’s Dumptruck?