may every one have the break they deserve,good winds and good friends for the comming year,am enjoying the forum lots to learn.bob:zbeer:
Too much to read—
Too nearsighted to read it :lol:
Hello ALL,
JayDee here, wishing you all the very best for the coming Festive Season.
May you all have a very nice Holiday with your friends and Familys.
For some reason I had to use a different name to log in, but dont worry, I am still the same old JayDee!!!.
JayDee. :slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy
G’day Rusty , compliments of the season, shipmate. Well how are we going to spend this year, getting into trouble??
What a year , last year was… But mate it all worked out for the best in the end. I have to be on my best behaviour. Not to tell any more … any things. you get the drift. We are not to talk about that class in that other place, for some of us got our IQs burnt last time.
You know Rusty I thought these American were not keen on A Class but here we see boats like “Wheelers” coming out in San Francisco MYC and in the East Coast sailing these really big Js.
Rusty, I can’t understand this thing about why make two classes out of one class. The American A class has a history second to none. The only logical thing I can think of is that these particular boats seem to like light weather. I got a photo of of a great heap of wheelers in Spreckel’s lake and they looked good and our mate from Marblehead sailing his J with the Minutemen in MA and he seemed to be having a great time, too . But why would they go for both these big classes, when there is a International class to cover both of these types of boats?
Steve
…and let us all hope that it is not a bloody New Year’s Resolution…“we” all know where they land…though let’s not forget:
Res firma mitescere nescit
Hi Steve and Happy New Year to you and yours.
Will take a stab at the above. Seems that we “Yanks” enjoy having our own “stuff”. Also, with the size of the country, there can be marked differences in the winds from one location to the next… hence the ultralight US1Meters (generally) and the slightly heavier IOM and ODOM boats.
My guess is that the ISAF and the Radio Sailing Division leaders weren’t keen on updating rules, or maybe even correcting visible errors, so that it came down to more modern hull designs, different sail areas, and perhaps new and allowed ideas or technology which caused the Wheelers to differentiate from the J Class boats.
I “fought a similar war” of the Mini40 multihulls, and don’t regret a moment of it. When rule issues were pointed out and we tried to change them, a resounding slap to the head (or wrist) telling us we didn’t “own them” put us on edge. That’s why the F-48 Class of multihulls came to be. They (French owners) didn’t want to correct the problem, so we did it “our” way and gained a lot of enemies while doing so. I was even taken to task by the yachting editor of the UK magazine for model boats - as well as a few shots from other various and sundry places in the world. A few of us know the “behind the scenes story” - and thus the reasons to answer questions such as yours. Along with the wonderful support from the ISAF RSD boys (NOT) at the time when we started the multihull effort here in the US, the issues were/are addressed in our rules. Clearly we could have accepted the Mini40 rules as they were written, but they are wrong (even today) and some “names behind the scenes” agree with us - although for (ahem) political reasons they can’t or won’t do it publically.
So while we can speculate on why something did or didn’t happen, I am sure there is a background that many of us don’t know - and perhaps don’t want to know. From the perspective of the owners - just take a tour of the AMYA website and see the many classes there are. In the 1 Meter size alone, there is something for everyone.
In the old days of this forum, there were heated discussions if more classes were needed or wanted. People took stands with well written and thought out opinions. In the end - it comes down to choice. Perhaps it is good we have so many classes that appeal to so many? Others may point to how much larger classes would be if we simply restricted the number. In the end, just like big boats, a new design must present itself and prove itself. Not everyone can afford the $10 million or so for a Wild Oats monohull, but they are being built to that size and those who choose - play in it. The rest of us, with limited incomes enjoy smaller verrsions, classes where we still get enjoyment - and in the end, that’s what it is all about. Right?
Hello,
Jaydee here,
Dick posted
In the old days of this forum, there were heated discussions if more classes were needed or wanted. People took stands with well written and thought out opinions. In the end - it comes down to choice.
I entirely agree, I witnessed the arguments to and fro that Dick quotes, people have a will of their own, what suits one person, may rile another.
As long as people are sailing model boats, let them keep doing it!, does it matter what they are sailing?.
Each and every model boat that is sailing, will, at some time be spotted by a guy who didnt know it could be done!.
When he realises how much FUN it is, - - - another one in our Hobby!!.
JayDee.
www.john-dowd.co.uk
In the old days of this forum, there were heated discussions if more classes were needed or wanted. People took stands with well written and thought out opinions. In the end - it comes down to choice. its nice to hear this forum has had heated discussions and are still here to post more opinions,shows what an enlightend bunch we have here.:diablo: yes Steve lets have a good year,it will take more than a small cloud to dim
my get up and go.i believe its the irritent in the shell that produces the pearl !:winking: All the best to every one out there,Bob @ www.nautic12.org
Well Shipmate, there is a lot of truth in that oyster shell. An American freind put it another way recently, when he said " most people can follow a line, not many can go out and mark the line". I must admit I had not thought of it like that. And Rusty you , to me are a line maker.
To all my shipmates. Have a good one. Steve
From Jaydee,
HAPPY NEW YEAR !!
Well in 9 hours , give or take a couple minutes. S
Well thats interesting about your Multi experiences. Let me ask you (because your here) is the AMYA is stronger , because of these additional classes?
I was in your lovely country in 2000 and saw that the Marblehead Club sailing little boats CR 914’s in that famous pond. Well I was a little taken back by this sight and the only Marbleheads I could see were vintage. I went there to see the Vintage for the 75th Anniversary of the Marblehead Club.
There is a similar thing that is happening in this country in the way of Soling IOM taking over traditional classes. If these were all new peoiple coming in it would not be such a bad thing but no, it is displacing traditional classes with this plastic fantastic.
Do these boats add to our Associations, no but they are starting to effect the fabric of it all.
I would suppose there will be someone who will get up and say I should not mention anything But Dick it is the time and place to mention it!
In this country Australia , there is A Class, 10 Rater, Marblehead, IOM and EC12 as the national class. There is also the laser class making strong efforts to become national as with Soling IOM. With the Laser , they seem to be doing it with new people to the sport.
We in Australia have a different method on how a class can become National. Our country has 7 states. For a class to be recognised it must be holding regular regattas in each 3 of those States. In each state there must be regular club races.
This has worked for the last 40 odd years and has worked well.
And whats wrong with that? Maybe the want to sail a different boat.
Hard to give answers - as many aren’t talking!
I do recognize the loss of home builders - and that may be the reason why the “plastics” are catching on. Many of the classes begin as local clubs or maybe regional classes. After all, if someone has boat “A” - why work to build boat “B”. Also, I think (my personal view) that the sailing community hasn’t caught up with the aircraft or car racing groups - in terms of costs. Perhaps even there, fewer home built aircraft are surplanted by faster to assemble foam or plastic ones. Add in the anti-noise factor, and there also seems to be a move toward fast electrics.
With available plastic boats, one doesn’t have to spend hours of labor gluing up strips, fairing and glassing - and then - finding and assembling all the bits and pieces ---- you merely need to place your order and someone else will build it for you. Look at the photos of our participants at most events. My goodness, in many cases they look like residents of the “old age” homes. (And I say that being as I’m 60) Look to the younger crowd, and they have other interests competing for their discretionary spending dollars. Age, women, work, college, (or college bills) all take their toll. The older folks ( a blanket statement coming) seem to be the builders, and once one moves to a retirment community - you are back again as to where to spend your money.
As the costs of boats have gone up as their popularity increased, the number of owners seem to decline. Someone in their mid years, raising a family, paying off the over-priced home mortgage, and making payments on two cars so husband and wife can work to afford it may not leave much room to purchase a $3,000 state-of-the-art “M” Class. And why spend time away from growing children to home-build an “M” that may (or may not) be competitive with the SCALPEL.
I find that a class that seems to attract a lot of attention (the IOM) has had costs well above $1,000 US for several years. Yes there are home builts and yes there are “deals” on older boats - but if it isn’t competitive - then what? Does one chase the class with a fistful of dollars? Home made designs and boats win their share of local races and probably even regional ones - but the publicized races (Nationals and Worlds) that tweak everyone’s interest usually are elite sailors with boats that are new and expensive. And yes, I admit to the occassional home built that cracks the top five or ten at these events.
In an attempt to foster home builds in my big cat class (development class) we even offered a trophy to the top finishing home built boat. No takers for 4 years that we tried. There basicaly are three types of boats … 1) home built, …2) home assembled, … and 3) ready to race. As costs for custom boats continue to rise - and when custom boats are necessary to win at a Regional or National level, I think you will see the gradual flow of new (and exisiting) sailors towards the less expensive class.
Climate Models has advertised their IOM at a cost significantly below other available IOM boats, but none appear in the winner’s circle - and truth be told, I don’t recall seeing or hearing of any entered in any major races. Does this they are inferior? Unlikely, it just means not too many top-notch sailors are willing to place their reputations on an untested boat. If one or several of these IOM’s were to start winning - I think others will move toward the idea of a less expensive boat still being competitive.
If - all of the current IOM leaders were to move to a hard-chine, slab sided, cat-rigged centerboarded boat, that movement would take many with them. Some because they believe it will be the next big, hot class. Some because they want to continue to race against the best.
:idea_125: If a few of the top world sailors like Graham Bantock were to move to a Mini40/F-48 multihull class, and if Graham were to put out a boat - kit, components or built, it would be my guess you would see a sudden interest, and sudden class growth. I guess one could say why go beyond the ISAF recognized international classes? There is something there for all (with multihull exception of course) You have homebuilt (?) IOM’s, the “M” Class, and the 10Rater where some limited development can occur. Then the “A” Class for them that likes 'em big. Do we need 12 inch Footy’s, or 6 different 1 Meter classes, or 24, 30 or 36 inch long boats? I’d say yes, as long as there is an interest in them. And for those that don’t have enough numbers, but there are “pockets” of interest - give them the opportunity to develop their own class - or figure a good-as-it-will-get handicap system to allow them to sail together.
Not sure if there is an answer however. Sure would be nice to see this develop into a nice discussion topic where others would participate and voice their feelings. These of course, are just my own personal thoughts and opinions at this moment in time - they could change tomorrow. :bag:
I?m at the other end of the age spectrum 26. My first two models were plastic boats. Number one was a ?Soling 1M? (not ?Soling IOM?, god it pisses me off when people refer to things like they are some how IOM related.), and number two was a Victoria. The number one reason was cost. If I?m going to drop 2-3K it?s not going to be one something that doesn?t cost nearly that much to make.
I think sailors in the old time classes need to stop tying to killing of newer classes and just deal with the fact that people might not want to sail an IOM or Marblehead or 10R or A.