A friend just bought a suit of Gordon Stout sails(the last ones he’s making apparently) and they are very nice. What really caught my eye was the tiny little eyelets he used. Does anyone know where a person can get these? I would ask him but I can’t seem to find a link to his site. You can see the eyelets I’m refering to at this site.
http://www.legacyfamilytree.ca/sail/Step-by-StepE.html
Thanks
Don
Vancouver Island
Don
Yes it is sad Gordon Stout is no longer making sails [:-cry] And I only live 2.5 hours away so have to find another supplier. I wonder if he is going to sell off his boats and other items. Sure a lack of Canadian suppliers for r/c sailing.
I did find a supplier of mini12 hulls out of the Ottawa area if your interested.
Anyways the small eyelets can be found at Micheals Hobby supply( pricey place). Also if you have a craft shop they may carry them for doll cloths. Tandy Leather use to have them also but not sure if they still carry them. And a off chance a shoe maker (if you can find one) may be able to access them for you.
Jeff
Alberta
Don
Great basin model yachting sells them in packs of 100, they have 2 different sizes. Make sure to buy the punch to set them.
http://www.gbmy.com/
http://www.gbmy.com/csailmake.html
Item #320
Item #321
Item #322
Item #325
Item #326
Any arts and crafts shop sell them complete with the punch and hole cutter etc.
Peter
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Sure a lack of Canadian suppliers for r/c sailing.
<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>
Lets turn this around and say there sure is a lack of Canadian buyers for the suppliers you do have.
Less than 2% of our business is Canadian.
Hmmm… Seems you only have yourselves to blame for the lack of suppliers.
You don’t support them, they go out of business.
The same thing for your local hobby store. You complain about the price of everything and say you can get it cheaper somewhere else.
As soon as the hobby store goes out of business, you are shocked to find it is no longer around.
Most of you want the cheapest you can get. You argue over a $10.00 price difference for a kit.
“I can get that cheaper somewhere else” What a great statement that one is.
If you have ever said those words, don’t forget to pat yourself on the back every time a local supplier or store goes out of business.
I know the truth hurts. But the consumer is the one that ultimately controls the destiny of the hobby, not the supplier.
Peter R.
www.climatemodels.com
Visit www.climatemodels.com
Peter
Do you have the eyelets I’m looking for?
Thanks
Don
Vancouver Island
Peter -
Not to be argumentative here, but there are also issues with local suppliers to go around as well.
These are the guys who mark up their kits by a significant margin, - well above the “street” price. These are the shops who, after selling the kit to a buyer have no “trained” or “experienced” sales people to assist with after the sale building/assembly questions. These could be the shops, who have the staff that when a question is asked about a product, they take it from your hand and read exactly what you have read on the outside of the package. These are the shops who will not special order items - yet they don’t stock them either - citing lack of volume or interest. This is the store, whose staff are into planes or cars, and have no one to answer questions about sail winches, turnbuckles, etc. - and whose only response to a directed question is a blank stare.
How many hobby shops sell glass fabric right off the roll? How many can discuss the merits of different brands of epoxy and suggest building methods? Does the store have active builders, or do they simply sell “kits”? Does ANYONE in the store have sailboat experience - or are they all “powerheads”? Can you purchase blocks from the wall - or must they be special ordered? Does the shop keep a list of clubs, members and regatta schedules - or - do they even know to whom to refer the new sailor?
Now - I don’t mean to lump every hobby shop into this - just as I am sure not all Canadians purchase from the states (or elsewhere), however, to be honest, I will gladly save a “measly” $10.00 and purchase from a Tower Hobbies (as example) and get the same amount of support, answered questions, etc. as I get from a disinterested, teenage kid who is into racing nitro cars or discussing the latest rap artist with the other store employee.
Being short-sighted, how many shops hire at the lowest possible wage to increase profits, while jepordizing any repeat customers because of lack of staff interest or knowledge? Finally, how many true shops are set up and able to handle the minority of sailor/buyers? Most local shops don’t find it profitable to handle r/c sailing products, since there are so few of us around (as compared to cars and planes and powerboat owners).
After driving nearly 45 minutes to a big hobby shop only to find out the person taking my call was wrong - and they really don’t stock the part I needed, it doesn’t take long to avoid the drive and simply pick up the phone, place my order with a supplier who does have the parts, and receive them in a few days.
I’m not suggesting that Climate works this way, nor do I lump all shops into these categories, but for a lot of us, the experiences are typical, and the industry (in general) needs to be aware of the other side of the coin - not just the frugal buyer wanting to save $10.00 - but the buyer who would be willing to purchase if “IT” was available. “It” being supplies or answers.
We have eyelets in stock. They are the 4.3mm (.170") ones. Available in chrome, brass, and bronze color.
We used to stock the smaller ones, but customers complained that they were too small for larger or multiple lines, and old fingers could not work with them as well.
We found they also tend to rip out of the sails much easier. (Hence the need for the backing washer)
The larger eyelets are available for $2.99 /100 Cad.
Peter R.
Visit www.climatemodels.com
Hey Dick,
All great points! You obviously know both sides of the coin well.
Here is something to ponder.
4% of the entire RC hobby is boats. (Power, sail, scale, subs, etc.) Of that 4% less than 10% is sailboats.
Flyers and drivers constantly break parts and buy new items for their models.
Sailors typically build a boat, sail it for 5 years, buy nothing new for it, and make most of the parts they need to keep it running.
The numbers are just not there like they are for planes and cars.
As a retailer, why would any smart business owner stock product that never sells and takes up a large space in their store, when they could fill that same space with something that would sell hundreds of times?
As for the stupid people behind the counter, your happiness is irrelevant if the retailer only sees you a few times in 5 years.
If sailboaters were to buy as much as the car or plane guys do, you can be sure that the guy behind the counter would be well versed in sailing terminology and kits, as well as stocking a vast variety of parts.
Sailors are cheap! That?s what makes them sailors and not helicopter pilots.
It is a lifestyle and there is nothing wrong with it.
Here is an open can of worms.
How may people on this board have ever dealt with us here at Climate Models?
How many have actually purchased something?
If you looked and went elsewhere, why did you go somewhere else?
As a retailer and someone who is very dedicated to the hobby, questions like this are a constant concern.
How can we make our customers happier? What do we need to do to bring them what they want?
What do they want?
Peter R.
Visit www.climatemodels.com
Amazing what can start a small fight. Simply saying A lack of Canadian suppliers for R/C sailing is true. Try to find them???I should have edited the comment but forgot about it. Granted if we do not support them they disappear. Which is sad. What I meant by this comment is there is a lack of Canadian suppliers that I have found. Or the ones online have a real lousy web site that does not show all if not most of the items they carry. I would prefer to buy Canadian over others. But it is funny when I look at USA companies and they have a product that even with shipping and exchange rate I can get it cheaper then locally. And saving a few dollars is worth it to me. BUT I always ask the local hobby shop if they can match or beat a pricey. At times they come close or cannot move on the pricey , and if I need it today I’ll pay the higher price.
Saying a place is pricey is not a offense as the Local Micheals here is lot higher then other stores. As a axample Balsa wood sheets 1/8 x 4 x 36 = 5.75 plus tax, hobby shop that I deal with locally 5.50 ,and if I go to Calgary 4.75 a sheet.
I for one try to support local bussness first Lucky for me the hobby shop here is great, good staff and willing to help or learn about the projects that I am working on.
Yes I shop out of town and out of country but it is only if I see a item that I want and the local shop cannot get it in.
I have to agree with Dick’s comments.
Jeff
Alberta
Hey Jeff,
Dick and I go way back. Nothing on these boards between us is ever a fight.
Dick always brings out some very good points of view. He has a great way of looking at things that I don’t always see.
Even though it may look like a scuffle to the untrained eye, we both compliment each others points very well.
Point being, if Dick said it, you can count on it being a good observation and never a slant on what “might” have been said.
Right from the horses mouth…Not the other end. [:D]
Peter R.
Visit www.climatemodels.com
Peter -
thank you for your kind comments. And Peter is correct that wwith differences of opinion, we have managed to remain on civil terms with each other. I too have found the information provided by Peter to be useable and believeable.
You all must excuse me for a while - I need to go and lobby ISAF to remove some of their rules so more carnage occurs on the high seas. [:-devil]
If we can change over to very fast boats, and ones that self-destruct upon contact, then maybe there is a place for us sailors as well[8D] Ho Ho ! In some seriousness - a reason for picking sailboats and not powerboats was simple - I saw a powerboat escape the control of an owner and after hitting the concrete retaining wall, I helped gather up what pieces coud be found - or lifted from the bottom. There is truth, that companies stock what sells. At least we sailors count on slef-destruction in order to purchase a replacement part.
Hmmmmm - maybe, in my mind, I am equating a multihull with a car - if it goes fast enough, it will destruct and I can purchase a new one ! [:D]
If I can interject a comment or two:
First we need to seperate racers from the general sailing community. As a racer, I spend a decent amount of money keeping my boat in top form. I have owned my Fairwind (a plastic kit boat that was purchased from the local hobby shop) for 4 years now. In that time, I have bought 2 suits of sails from Rod Carr, bought a mast from SailsEtc, bought various carbon fiber rods to use for jib booms, I’m on my 4th vang, 3rd battery, and have 3 pekabe blocks down below. Mind you - none of these purchases were made because those items were broken, but rather because I wanted an “upgrade” to the existing stuff. But outside of the kit that I started with, I did not buy any of that stuff from the local hobby shop. There is no way I would expect him to stock Carr sails or groovy mast sections from the UK. The fact that anyone does (usually Great Basin) is awesome!
Secondly, It should be recognized that it was only recently that plastic kit boats meant for the general RC community were even something for a racer to consider. For a long time in this country it was homebuilts or some kit that was specially made for racers (Soling 1M, EC12, etc). In fact, when I wrote the class rules for the Fairwind 2 1/2 years ago, the AMYA gave me a bunch of static for mentioning “Kyosho” in the rules. They did not want to “endorse” a single builder. Hobby shops cannot expect to stock specialty boats just like the local full size marinas would not be expected to have olympic class boats for sail. As for the building supplies, an even lower percentage of the racers use that stuff. but I have been surprised how easy it is to find cloth, resin, filler and so on at the local hobby shop…
Will Gorgen
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by ClimateModels
How may people on this board have ever dealt with us here at Climate Models? <hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>
I have
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>[i]How many have actually purchased something?<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>
Not me
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>[i]If you looked and went elsewhere, why did you go somewhere else?<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>
Actually changed my mind as to the type of boat I wanted. Had to try my hand at build a US1M and so far it is going great. Peter you can blame Cougar for this he said they were easy to build and fun. He was right on both accounts…
Jeff
Alberta
Cool Alberta is now dedt free!!! Now lets see if the rest of the provincal leaders take note and try it there.
I will send Lloyd (cougar) the bill for the boat you were going to buy from us, but did’nt. [:D]
Visit www.climatemodels.com
Hey Alberta Clipper (Jeff)
Don’t forget that Peter has that state-of-the-art, high-tech, new fangled, fabric cutting laser machine. I have been in contact with Peter regarding the possibility of him providing custom laser cutting of sail panels for the multihull classes once we get going.
In the meantime, give him the opportunity to quote you on a set of sail panels pre-cut and just waiting to be taped together for your US1Meter… <font size=“1”>(as a suggestion of course)</font id=“size1”>
It is a problem, I have been on both sides as a Hobby Shop owner (a very small one in a very small town) there was no way that I could compete with mail order catalog prices. The shop was for R/C cars (dirt/electric) back in the `80’s when they were all the rage. All the locals would buy their high ticket items from the catalogs… and BRAG about how much cheaper they were than our prices (Which barely covered our cost+ shipping) Then they would come to the track (at the shop) and bitch because we did not have the specific turnbuckle eyelet screw that they needed in stock. When the car broke down and they could not fix it themselves, they were more than willing to come and ask for advice and help on the repairs. I was MORE than tempted to tell them to call the catalog place they bought it from and ask THEM to fix it for them… but… alas… you can’t do that.
So, you nickle and dime your way along… and thank Providence for the coke machine that does more a more profitable business than the shop does… and consider getting a snack bar… NOW you can make some money and keep your hobby going.
With model boats it is even harder, and Sailboats??? wow… I have been all over the world and visted hobby shops on 4 different continents… and it is the same thing the world over. I guess the good news is I sure am glad Al Gore invented the internet (heheh) because now we have a fighting chance to reach the customers, and they us, all of which benefits my local club because I have more to offer them. I guess it all sorts itself out in the end.
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by ClimateModels
As a retailer and someone who is very dedicated to the hobby, questions like this are a constant concern.
How can we make our customers happier? What do we need to do to bring them what they want?
What do they want?
Peter R.
Visit www.climatemodels.com
<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>
Peter,
To myself, the answer is overwhelmingly obvious here and I have often wondered why you don’t see it.
Honestly, I was very taken back by your new boat that you had just unveiled, by posting photos here a few weeks ago, after making the announcement that you would be doing so a few months before. At first I thought it was a joke when I looked at the pictures. I just was baffled on why so much time would go into a boat that, as far as “I’m” concerned, has no value to the market.
It’s so obvious what is selling now. When people are waiting for over a year for some IOMs from over seas, how obvious can it be. When someone in California tweaks a five year old design IOM (Errica) and starts to manufacture them and ends up with a year waiting list in a mater of a few months, it’s obvious.
When another West Coast skipper builds only one new IOM, sails it well, and ends up with an overwhelming backorder of these boats in a matter a few weeks, it’s obvious.
When Don of Great Basin ends up with multiple orders a day, it’s again pretty obvious.
You seem to have the means, but also seem to not be up with just what is happening out there in the competitive world of RC Sailing. I believe someone stated that they were surprised that no one was sailing your IOM at the Nationals this last moth in New London. I’m just wondering if you offered it up to anyone to do so.
The people that have made it work in our hobby are the ones that are knocking on doors and getting feedback. Some of our best sail makers are that, because they get their sails into the right hands and ask for feedback. Alec at Blackmagick Sails and Scott at Windjammin are perfect examples of this business thinking and are incredibly successful in what they do. Another newcomer to the sail making world is Brian of Vision Sails. He made sure that he had at least two skippers, not including himself, using his sails in this years Nationals. It?s not something he did over night, but something he started working on in the winter months.
So, for someone in this sailing business not to see just what the people want, is not doing there homework very well. I will take the risk to say that you would have been far better off coming out with a design that fits into a popular class then waste your time with another obscure boat like the one you just unveiled here.
Thanks for your honest feedback Greg. I certainly appreciate your point of view.
I must say that I find your reply very interesting, it is certainly much more hash than what I would have expected from you.
As I have stated many times before, there is an entire segment of hobbyists out there that have no interest in competitive racing, or boats that are designed for such races.
We filled over 5000 orders last year. Most of those orders were for scale kits, not racing designs.
We have already pre-sold 24 of our Equinox kits. That?s enough for an AMYA class if they were all members and registered their boats. I bet you never see one of them though, as they most certainly will not interest such an accomplished and skilled sailor as yourself.
Sure, there are other builders who have a long list of backorders. I have to ask how good a model is if you can?t get it though? Kind of like looking at it through the hobby shop window if you ask me.
We produce our models just a little bit faster than the orders for them come in.
Don?t think for a moment we are at all slow either. We have already had 10 kits go out the door in our first courier pick up this morning. There are 3 more waiting for our pick up this afternoon and 7 envelopes with laser cut sail numbers, insignias, and graphics waiting for the postman to pick up at 4pm. It is an average day, and it is only just before 2pm. Another 4-5 orders will come in today and get shipped out in the morning.
Perhaps we don?t have any top boats in national events, and we can?t brag that we have people phoning us for the latest ?flash in the pan? racer, but if this is second or third, or even 500th best, I will take it.
Have to add that our sales have increased by over 30% per year, for the last 5 years. We are a very stable company, and have had continued growth even in poor economic times. We just brought on another person full time in the shop to help with new designs and production.
I guess we are doing something right.
To bad you are not out there racing one of our designs. You would probably do very well with it.
Peter R.
Visit www.climatemodels.com
One more thing I forgot to add.
Some of you may know that we also design electric and nitro powerboat kits.
If you want to talk nationals, and top boats for a second, Our Blizzard and Matrix outriggers are the fastest production 6 (N2 hydro) and 12 cell (P hydro) electric boats in the world.
They have won more local, national, and world championships than any other design.
We may not have the fastest, or best looking sailboat kits in the world, (in some peoples opinion) but nobody can touch us when it comes to these 2 classes of Fast Electric models.
I guess diversity is not such a bad thing after all.
But what any of this has to do with sail eyelets is beyond me.
Peter R.
Visit www.climatemodels.com