RYX Class

Rcsailing.net New Classes
1

I have a proposed new class of model yacht that I would like to have some comment on.:idea_125:

It would be called RYX for Radio Yacht Extreme.

[SIZE=2]A totally open class of Monohull Radio Yacht within the following paramaters.

Max LOA 2500mm
Max Draft 900mm
Max mast height from waterline 3500mm
Max mainboom length 1200mm

Thats it, no other restrictions.
Genoa`s, spinnakers, roller reefing headsails,all sail controls via radio, canting keels, ballast tanks, twin rudders, no rudders, you choose.
As many channels as you want.:crazy:

To be sailed by a crew of three.

  1. Helmsman,= one radio for helm and maybe mainsail, plus headsail?
  2. Crewman, = second radio for all the twiddly bits.
  3. Tactician, = uses binoculars for observing sail trim, mark roundings, tactics and position of opponents,:magnify:

If you look at the present state of the art IACC and VOR70 yachts you will see that we ( radio yachties ) have been there before, by about 3-5 years.
What we can do now will be copied by these bleeding edge boats in the near future.
If we can make a truly world leading class then those developments will be quicker and easier to implement into the fullsize.
These RYX boats would not be owned necessarily by one person but a club could own one or maybe a small group of friends who could have the skills to design, construct and campaign such a craft.

Let the flaming begin…[/SIZE][SIZE=2]:timebomb:[/SIZE]

2

Not to bring up bad memories - but as a reminder to the newer folks, that back when Doug Lord was here, this concept idea had been discussed but on a level of a “Club” racer (or syndicate) where several would pool costs, to build a large scale boat. The MaxZ86 was often mentioned, although a VOR boat hull style might be inteesting. I would suggest staying away from the obvious (12 Meter or IACC designs) due to a lot of copyright issues.

The club/syndicate could solicit advertising from local or national businesses to offset cost of boat, hardware, sails - or even travel. We never got to a point of size or type of racing (fleet or match) and Doug preferred to talk about canting keels and foils - so eventually this disappeared from discussion/thought.

I have (quietly) been testing the waters in private emails and there seems to be a little interest - but being able to compete on a world basis may prove difficult. Shipping an 8 foot boat and tall mast may be a logistical issue, and having only one or two boats in US, New Zealand, Australia, UK and Europe may cause the idea to be further shelved. Still, the idea of a large scale yacht with removeable keel has a little bit of interest, and I have some ideas of members of a syndicate alread on paper - so I wouldn’t mind a bit of disucssion - and opinions and reasons to bring us back to reality. If the flyers can build 12 foot or more wingspans, and B-52’s with multiple real jet engines, and if the scale power boaters can build battleships, cruisers or destroyers at up to 15 feet in length, I see no issue in that regard for sail boat sizes - but it would be the competition after the build that would be fun. Sailing locally against (no one?) would get tired real quickly. 2 Meter - 3 Meter would be a might big project, but instead of 5 or so little boats, resources would go to one really awesome boat.

I happen to have garage space available, and a VOR design is interesting - (or TP52) or if one wants - a one design class of maybe a Farr 40 or … ?

I’ll listen to ideas. :smile_lol

3

Sounds quite complicated to me, but I am new to the RC sailing world. I’ve always been amazed and interested in the MaxZ86 and VOR70 boats which I saw in person last week. Marvels of engineering and hopefully once the canting mechanisms gain a factor of safety, hopefully it will propogate through the sailing world. I think having several people involved in sailing the boat would prove to be challenging, yet rewarding when things work out. I will be watching this post to see how things progress.

4

When I left New Zealand, I sold my keelboat for a giveaway price. I sold my Laser II for about NZD$2,000 (less than a state-of-the-art IOM).

While such a mega-model would be cool, I’m thinking it will cost more than a decent club racing dinghy - and possibly even more than I could pick up an older J24 for here in the US.

Just my own opinion, but I think in that case, I’d rather been on the boat, than on the shore.

Well Ian - you did say “let the flaming begin” :watching3

5

Thats not a flame mate, thats just a “bic flick”:zbeer: (kiwi talk)

Thought of a different name for the class.

ROXY = Radio Operated Extreme Yacht…:cyclops: cool eh!

:sleep: (what a wanker) i no i no…:dunce:…sorry…

6

It’s all possible, I ship 10’ masts every week. I was stumped on how to do this and it held up production for 1 year. I was lucky and ran into an old buddy that I knew at DHL when I was a pilot for the many many years ago. He said… NO WAY!!! and I said… no kidding… 2 weeks later, DHL was shipping my 10’ spars and they can go anywhere DHL goes… which is everywhere. This idea of a MEGA model is one that I have been gathering information around for over 1 year now. The development of the genoa and spinnaker for this boat have been underway for 2 years now… more variations, gear ratios, materials, rates, voltages than I care to count… and no small amount of dough (and I CAN count that)

Material types… everyone … EVERY-ONE… is carbon crazy… there is a worldwide * on every order that the fine print says Check for Availability.
OH… you can get it… but you are going to feel it… OUCH. S-2 glass can produce 95% of the strength for a 2% weight penalty. Can you feel it in the boat?.. hah… you will #@$%# sure feel it in the price of the boat.

Sponsors… YOU BET… will people support this sort of thing? I am betting that they will. If it gets some crazy media attention… you might just SCARE yourself when you see what kind of responses you get to some advertisers that are willing to take a “flyer” on a crazy idea.

Dick makes a valid point… the B-52 with the 14’ wingspan and eight turbofans that cost between $45,000 and $60,000 and ended up tragically in a horrible crash and fire… shows that the money can be found for a high risk project… I have one J boat alone that was $6,000. It can be done, and the risk factor is less than 1.

My intention was not so much to create a class… that will be amazing… no… my idea was simply to kick the Open Class in the butt with a MONSTER boat that would be just ripping fast on the water. That is the end to which I am working… but I have to admit that I had the exact same idea about just giving it a max LOA and that was about it…

Now… Ian wanted some flaming… OK… watch this…

I have seen the multi hull boats… and it would seem that EVERY multi-hull sailor has one dream… and that is to race against a monohull… because they are SOOooooo much faster than monohulls… and they would just DESTROY a monohull on a race course… Yet, whenever I talk with someone I hear about how wicked fast they are… on one or two legs… and then something goes wrong… or breaks, or gets stuck… bottom line… the prize is for finishing first… not going FAST. Maybe it is going to take an OPEN event to ANY R/C sailcraft to see if these LEAPING from the water super foiling triple doo-dad canting beer can that “can easily go 15 knots in a 7 knot wind” are all that they claim to be on the race course. That means being ready to start multiple heats and ready to go on a large course… not just around the bottles… but a good sized course with about a 1/4 mile leg on it. (Get your walking shoes)

It is towards this end… that we are aiming here. A true, bring it, sail it, and lets see what happens Open Class regatta. Not for the timid.

We shall see…

7

I’m not from Texas - but can I say YeeHaw! ? :cyclops:

8

GO! Larry, yo my man…:halloween

Thats not a flame mate, that`s a little gentle cooking heat to get the tempreture up so we can create something that will turn everyone on.:jump2:

9

I saw the video of that B52 crash - it’s on the web somewhere. Man - even though it was not my model, I was hurting! :sad:

Sure am glad it is not so easy to destroy our sailing models.

10

Yeah, I was just SICK when I saw that Buff roll over. I talked with a guy that was there (via the net) and he said that there were two guys flying it… one as a pilot and one as a flight engineer. NO #$% ! I would think so ! eight throttles!!! The most I ever pushed up was four, and I thougth I had a handful. He said they lost power on the left wing and basically Vmc rolled it in.

The sight of two J Boats coming together is also harrowing… I will have to take a pill when that happens… I had a buddy sailing Rainbow at Earthday, and he only has a few hours stick time total, and most of it on Rainbow (what a beginner model eh?) and the winds were picking up and he was bringing it in… downwind, straight to the dock (perpendicular) She was at hull speed and he reached down with one hand… I screamed when I saw it and the boat was 3 lengths away… he immediately put the transmitter down and put both hands out to stop 90 lbs of boat rushing towards him. While it slammed his hands into the wood, there was no harm done, and I didn’t have to shoot him. We had some dual instruction time there and then on the proper method of luffing up to the dock, but it is tough there because there is only about 35-40 feet of water to work with, and it takes almost double that to get a J to stop even dead into the wind.

Launching and recovering the boats when they are 8-9’ LOA is not easy. I have finally had to admit, that I am not strong enough any longer to lift the bigger J’s into the water over the edge of the dock. I am going to either have to recruit help (maybe that is why everyone scatters when I show up) or go back to using a dolly on the boat ramp. Take that times 2x when the winds are up. She wants to GO.

11

Larry -

I just received email with a few of the VOR boat lines from Fredereco in Italy.

What hull did you finally print off that was so big? And did you print at 100% or was it enlarged? I was trying to find the darn post and can’t find it. I may take the PDF file which Fredereco says can be printed full scale down to our Duplicating center and see if I can print to 36 wide by ? long paper this weekend. Just thought that I would try to mimick yours - regardless of whether it was to size - or oversize. Fredereco also included a blurb or two on his calculations for a larger boat. I have to go back to be sure, but he was estimating 36 lbs. To me, that seems like a lot - because an 18 Square cat hull (18 feet long can be built at 38 - 42 lbs.) I guess I was thinking an 8 foot boat to run about 20 - 25 lbs. just as a guess.

Anyway - class or not, I do think the RXY Class boat may be started soon if all goes well. Let me know what plans you have and final size yours were printed at. If similar size (or close) I can modify to meet your size.

Thanks

12

Hey Dick,

that plan sheet was indeed from Fredereco in Italy. If he comes up with any others I would of course be pleased to get them. It will be quite some time before anything can be done on the project. Those don’t generate revenue… or atleast I don’t have the guts to try and make money off such a project. The AC-15’s were proof positive that it can be done as they would seem to have produced more than 60 boats at $6,000 a pop. I am told that most of them never saw the water, but were setup in board rooms and lobbys back in Europe. There were some pics way back when the cup was on… of syndicate members each taking a hand at going around the buoys, so certainly some of them got wet.

I am just fortunate that I have a buddy that works in industry of bleeding edge technology, so we can pull off fun things such as those plans up to 48" wide and I forget how long… I know it has scrolling ability to around 15’ or so… and I promise no models over 15’

LL
…although… we could tile the plans… hmmm…

13

I am actually currently designing a 98" “mini maxi”. It will have fore and aft rudders, a fixed strut with bulb, to be built of S-glass. Does anyone manafacture a 145" mast, or am i going to have to custom build that? Also, will standard servos work on this, or will i have to go digital?

14

First off - apologies - it was from Francesco [FONT=Verdana]not Frederico - man, senility is setting in![/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Second - he sent a Doc file that explains how to print PDF full size (or at least to whatever paper size your printer supports).[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Unfortunately - file attachments still cannot be done until Chad makes some changes. If you want a Word document on how to print - let me know your email address via P.M. and I will reply to your email with attachments. [/FONT]

15

Not sure who you were talking to Dick, I am printing those plans just fine.

The weight on the hull a few messages back,… I am making hulls that are J sized (90" LOA) and they are coming out at 8.5 lbs. That is hull only, no deck, no rudder, just the hull. That is not a bad weight for a hull that large. I can even trim that down a bit with a little magic, and I would say that for the AC hulls I am looking around 96" they will be right about 8 lbs. That is hull only once again.

16

Larry -
attachments still didn’t work here. Yes, I spun the lines off to a CD and plan to print early next week.

I fooled with hull layup of an F-48 made from strips of 1/4" thick foam, and glued up inside a “female” set of cross section templates. (hull was built “right side” up - not “upside down”) Layer of glass inside and out. Biggest problem encountered was fairing the strips, and running into the hot glue while sanding. I may give it a serious go using that method again, since at 8 feet - the hull could be built with much thicker and then more stock to be able to sand and fair. I am thinking a foam core hull might come in a considerably less weight - but I will need to do a test section of 12 inches to verify.

I have some photos at home of the concept/process.

Basically - you cut out the cross section templates - but use the “outside” form. Attach just like the male templates. Lay the strips “inside” the curved form. Lay in a layer of glass cloth. Remove the hull from the forms, turn over, fill fair sand. Add an outside layer of glass. It seems odd - but you are building “inside” the templates instead of over the top of them.

EDIT: added images to better explain “female Template strip build”

17

Dick,
just FWIW, when I make a plug… I get 2" extruded foam in 4x8 sheets. I cut out the formers (sorry, pilot) bulkeads… and mount them on a building board which is the flatest most straight board I can use. I mount the bulkheads perpendicular on the building board with an inside dimension of 2".

You can mount them with little blocks cut on the table saw, or whatever to ensure you get as perfect a 90 degree as possible. Then, when all the ribs/formers/bulkheads/stations… whatever term we can come up with… are in place you cut a hunk of foam and slide it between two. Take your hotwire cutter, and follow the outside of the bulkheads and you will make a perfect cut everytime. Add one block and repeat, and you will have either a plug to make a mold *how nice with multi-hull… you can get double use out of one mold) or… you can go back and hollow out the foam for whatever needs to go inside. Of course, you cover the outside with the glass skin and fair correctly, but even still, it goes quite fast.

You probably already know about this one, but just in case, it is a nice time saver and produces a nice part.

LL

18

Yes Larry - I have done it that way too, and covered the exterior surface with plastic packaging tape (2" wide). By careful application to eliminate folds or creases, and being sure to overlap sligthly, the tape will allow the fiberglass to be lifted off after cure, leaving you with a hollow half (or full) hull.

Another way is to use aluminum for templates and cut with hot wire following aluminum as a guide, then glue sections together. I used that method for my MultiONE trimaran. Photo below showing sections and then glued up to form 1/2 of the hull plug. This was covered with tape to give me my hollow glass hull parts.

Finally you can follow the ideas presented by French designer of Water Resist multihulls (cat or tri) which I documented as a PowerPoint program that Wis has on his website, I think.

Using your idea, once glass is applied, acetone or lacquer thinner can “melt” out the foam if you want to go lighter. It’s a gooey mess but also works.

With all of these easy ways to build hulls, I am just surprised that more people don’t give it a try. It certainly can be faster for the first-time builder than cutting/glueing up balsa strips.

All of the above suggested building methods building methods still require a surface (exterior ) to be faired and finished. I like doing it on the outside as it’s easier working. One could also use this “plug building method” to cover with heavy weight glass to make your own mold if multiple hulls are to be produced.

19

OK,

I have to ask, why mess with foam etc? At 8 feet in length, i would think 1/16" to 3/16" thick cedar covered with carbon would be a good alternative.

20

Dan -

Weight of epoxy/glass versus epoxy/glass/wood versus epoxy/glass/foam core! (for those who want the added cost - substitute Kevlar or Carbon in place of the word “glass”)

You can take your pick. As noted by Larry - two 2 inch thick slabs of foam glued together and shaped is about the fastest way to build a hull. Especially if you can remove the glassed hull from the form, leaving the foam and section templates behind. I tried the foam core strips, and while they are only easier to cut/shape to fit than wood. All other issues remain - edge glue, beveled edge joints, flexible when sanding/filling, sometime too easy to sand in a hollow, need for glass on “both” sides of the foam to encapsulate, etc. With wood, you “could” eliminate the inside hull layer of cloth, but still need to seal it. With closed cell foam core, any holes won’t suck up water/moisture and dents are easy to fix - although so is wood if it is painted as compared to difficulty if a clear finished hull is damaged. While I did it, I’m not sure I would do it again with foam strips that thin.

Seriously - if you precut your station templates and mount to strongback, fill in between with solid foam chunks precut to fit tightly between stations, hot-wire shape/cut to match station templates on each end of the foam, cover with packaging tape and lay up two to three layers of glass, with exception of final fairing and finishing (fill, sand, prime, and paint) I am guessing you could knock off a hull in less than four hours if all supplies are at hand and ready to be used. You might be longer laying up the cloth with epoxy than shaping the hull ( a guess).

At 8 feet, one would require a lot of station templates to prevent the wood strips from bowing if strips are not 1/4 inch or more. (typical hull thickness for canoe/kayak) Thicker hull material also allows for sanding a lot to fair in. If you stay thin, more time would probably be required to make sure accuracy of strips during glue up. Finally, the transition from extremely thin bows to wide, fat, flaired aft sections is easy to do with shaped foam, but bending wood strips might result in a trip to the “looney” ward? :icon_tong