Dear friends
I attach an excelent work/analisis by Pascal Delapierre, about the RG65 keel.
For those who have trouble with Word documents, I’ve converted the RG65 History, and a combined version of Pascal Delapierre’s analysis, to PDF and uploaded them to Yahoo group file section. I’d put them here, but they are too large for this forum’s file limits. If anyone has trouble getting them off the Yahoo group, PM me with your email and I’ll be happy to send them to you. The English-language rules will be up in PDF shortly. If there are any other RG65 documents in Word format that you think should be in PDF, please let me know.
Cheers,
Earl
Earl, You have a pm with the graphically represented rules on page 9 translated.
Hi Chris
Reminds me of this well-worn cartoon… (smile)
Hi All!!!
Nice to see the class is growing!!
Cheers from Chile!
German
Hi,
just a short notice from Germany
The class is growing fast here, we now have approx 85 registered sailors in Germany, nearly 50 of them are active in sailing races.
The discussion on keel length is quite interesting. Here the common experience is, that a fin length of 25-30 cm combined with a 550g keel bulb is a good combination. In the moment most of us are using aluminium profiles 4.5 to 5 mm thick with a cord length of 47 and 53mm resp.
For my opinon, the development will go to thinner (3mm) fins made from carbon fibre.
Up to now, I am sailing a Laerke65. This was originally an IOM design by Soren Andresen. I am just completing a modified Vanquish ( originally a IOM design, too) and now I am designing the first boat by my own.
For further information on the German activities, have a look into the German forum: http://www.rg65.de/forums/index.php (it’s mainly in German, of course …)
As I consider an RG65 build, I happed to remember a potential Victor Model Products design, so went looking for it. I thought I would post a few comparison sizes between the RG65 (maximum) class rules, and the Victor Products “BLACKHAWK” series of vacuum formed hull.
While only slight differences, at this scale it might magnify itself to make the BLACKHAWK un-usable for competition. Still for a current US cost of $65 it might be worthwhile to buy one to try out. To save you time, here is my comparison:
Victor…RG65 Rule
Length 24 inches vs. 25.5 inches
Mast Height 41 inches vs. 43.3 inches
Sail Area 230 Sq. Inches vs. 348.7 sq. inches
Keel (depth) 8 inches vs. 10 inches
Weight 2.5 lb vs. 1.8 lb.
So looking at the major dimensions, would 1 inch shorter (Victor) hull be significant? It is percentage wise, but how about for performance?
Mast height - easy to build your own to maximum rule height
Sail area - build/buy sail set cut to class maximum
Keel - build/buy a carbon or aluminum keel - deeper length as noted above
Weight:
- Build/buy bulb to average weights as noted above
- Eliminate plastic deck - use thin balsa with acetate access hole covers
- Carbon mast/booms are less weight than wood from Victor kit
- Sails from thin Mylar instead of heavier kit provided Dacron
In looking at what needs to be changed, the costs to do that aren’t significantly prohibitive to make changes to rules maximums, but there still remains the issue of a 1 inch shorter hull - will this be a big enough handicap in performance?
What you get is an instant hull of vacuum formed styrene (or maybe ABS) and the opportunity to add finishing as you see fit (within the rules of course).
Would be interesting to hear comments and thoughts from others.
Haegar, I’ve heard that in the early days of sailing the RG65 in Germany, they frequently sailed alongside 70 cm boats such as the Basic-Jolle and the Dutch XL25. How did they compare? It might answer the questions raised by Dick Lemke about the smaller Blackhawk.
Hi Maximo, Martin, and others.
I find I must preface my comments because they might otherwise be taken the wrong way.
As I said at the start of this thread, the RG65 class seems an excellent one. The fact that no less a respected authority than Chris Jackson is associating himself with the class says everything you need to know about it. All credit to Maximo and his colleagues in their passion and enthusiasm for the class.
However, I do not believe that this means the class is perfect, nor that it means it is beyond constructive criticism. In particular, I would expect anyone with class interests at heart would welcome a discussion on any RG65 issues, without seeking to restrict discussion to only ‘authorised’ persons or to suppress it outside of ‘authorised’ places.
I am well-known for my interest in radio sailing classes, and for my interest in looking towards the future and seeking to make arrangements which anticipate and deal with future trends and potential problems. Such an approach naturally has some risks, as does an approach which prefers to wait for the problems to arrive before dealing with them. It is not my intention to debate the philosophy of class management here. Instead, I simply want to draw attention to some trends that I think are relevant.
When a class gains momentum, and when it begins to think about championships on a world stage, some very capable and very clever designers and sailors will start to pay attention and will start to think about participating. Such competitors will read the class rules very carefully, seeking to obtain an advantage for their boat. This is natural and to be expected, it is part of the game. So whatever might currently seem to be the normal parameters for a RG65 boat will, fairly quickly, become completely outdated.
We can easily anticipate what a highly expert technical designer and specialised manufacturer will do. Any radio controlled monohull which prohibits moveable ballast has its performance constrained by its righting moment. An expert designer will immediately seek to improve the righting moment. And similarly, a RC boat is constrained by its displacement, so the design will almost always add lightness… Put the two together, and you have longer keels with lighter bulbs.
In order to make this work, our specialised and highly technical designer will seek to exploit current and newly emerging high-tech materials. Very quickly, aluminium fins will become completely uncompetitive as the new fins enter the market and as sailors of all abilities seek to improve their chances. Somewhat less quickly, longer fins will come to dominate. I simply repeat here what has happened to the Marblehead over the last 40 years, and I think the prediction for the RG65 is a near certainty.
That is all I want to say.
Hi, Martin,
the “German RG-65 rules” are called “RG-65 Open” to indicate, that they are not as much restricted as the international rules. The intention was, to make the start for the class easier, because the German rules allow also to sail with the so called BASIC (a simple German design with 70cm length) and several rts models.
In the eastern part of Germany around Berlin (where I live) there is only little experience with other designs. At the beginning (1-2 years ago) we had an Etter OCEANIS - no chance in races. There was also a BASIC - no chance in races. I started with a modified Kyosho Fortune 612 (other rigg, deeper keel better (and light weight) RC-equipment - only chances in very light winds.
Today all RGs which I know fit in both the German and the international rules.
There are no extreme designs up to now. Although movable ballast is allowed in Germany, nobody as build a boat using a canting keel or something like that. (Of course, there are discussions on that, but no experience.) A keel weight of 500-550g and a keel fin of 25-30cm are standard and seem to be a good compromise.
A lot of designs are scaled IOM designs (65%), but some designs are completey new ones. Especially in the northern part of German are two guys busy in developing new boats. Arne Semken in Lubeck has designed the OFFSET and the BlueSplash, which both are very good allrounders. Sven H. Klatt also from Lubeck makes a lot of experiments with very slim designs (8.5 cm waterline) and swing riggs. Additionally, Peter Gernert has just started to build a RG based on the Crazy Tube design from P. Stollery, and I have started to develope a new boat based on the lines of the Prime Number of G. Bantock. ( 50% scaled M-Boats are unfortunately extremely lightweight - 750g only - so I have to make some modification …)
Finally, here is a picture of my Laerke65
Hi All
A lot has being said about the class, the scaled IOM’s and other kind of boats with an assorment of riggings, keels, ballasts, materials, sails and stuff.
At least here in Chile the story goes as follows: The national Champion sails a brazilean carbon fiber Vadala65 with swing rig on which he won almost all the races of the year and also the last national championship. The other “front row” boats are a balsa wood jif2 (or puma if you wish so) and a Chilean designed Wally built in balsawood and epoxy. Between those 3 boats all the top places were distributed during last year championship.
Regarding apendages, two of them had carbon fiber rudder and keel and the other is balsa rudder and aluminum keel. weights? all three between 950g and 1000g.
Other boats that sail here are some prosails brazilean hulls, one or two promek’s, one or two palo de agua, a few jif65’s, some jif2’s, a couple own designed rg based on laser hulls and a few others… the ranking shows aproximately 35 boats that took part on the championship with an aprox total of 200 boats registered on the class (200 assigned sail numbers).
Maybe some of the chilean skippers will join this forum and post their experiences also.
Cheers
German
Haegar or German -
Would a hull length of 60.96 cm be competitive with a 65 cm hull - or would it be too slow (if you know).
If anything that size was competitive, a supplier might be available here in the US for vacuum formed plastic hulls for those who do not want to build - or import.
Dick
Hi, Dick,
I think, a good trim and especially tactics are more important, than 4cm less hull length!
But, according to the international rules only 65±0.5 cm are allowed (plus bumper). The German (a little bit more “open”) rules allow for shorter hulls, because they restrict the maximum hull length.
BTW, I could win some runs and made an overall second in my first RG-65 competition with a modified Fortune 612 (612mm hull length)
Hi Dick
Probably 4cm less and the fewer wetted area might be a little advantage on a smaller boat, but with resistance differences that little, your “finger on the radio” becomes much more important… IMHO…
Cheers
German
I agree about “stick time” being important. I need to look at the rules one more time.
Would hate to spend time and effort building a boat only to be DSQ over 4 cm. 
That +/- .5 cm might kill off this idea.
Thanks fellas.
Dick
add a stern extension Dick!
glue on a bit of foam,bit of glass over it,fair it up.Presto RG65!!
Right on Brett - it was one end or the other
Dick,
I did both ends on my fullsize yacht with great results!!
My thought was to graft in the extra length amidships.
Designs are important. But in a Championship.
What percentage corresponds to the design? and to the sailor?
I think that the design is not resolving