re!!

Interesting that you bring up Rod Carr’s name, as he used to be a very large contributor with his many post here on rcsail about four years ago. Fact is that he NEVER brought up his business here. Like many of the earlier members here that had their own products, he never pushed them or claimed that they were better then others.

Stop speculating that others will abuse this forum the way DL does. I find it hard to believe that so many DL rules have been made and how much this forum has evolved around trying to contain just this one person. How much more will this forum change just to keep him in line?
Anyone here know about the Patriot Act? Well, at least we know who the terrorist is here. Amazing how someone who is so hated here feels he just must stick around and rub salt into any open wound. What does he care that we now have four moderators per thread. Interesting to see just who?s post are most edited. Yet you all still let him wonder the site with free rein to inject his venom wherever he wishes.
Funny thing is that I bet that Will, Wis, Matt, Cougar, and Dan would all be good friends here, among others, if it was not for the DL factor. Just how much are you all going to let him rob from all of you?

greg
wis and matt and dan i count as good friends. we talk all the time. i did not know that rod carr posted here. he would be a good person to listen too. as for the mods. we do try and keep order. and yes most post that are edited are doug lords. i for one have had enough. i wont stand by and let other members of the board chase future members away. i will stand up for them. if you want to yell at me. fine I am a big boy . but i feel like right now i sometimes dont have too many freinds here. i have a few real good friends and then the members. this i want to change. i am glad that you are back, and that dick are back. we need people like yourselves . to help us. help jeff out . people who are just starting out. i have helped jeff plank a hull. now he is building more boats. with all the fighting going on. canting keels, foils, super duper spinakers. who else here can say ( honest) that they have help somebody in the water. i thank god ever day. for people like tom williams, and laurent shock( i know wis . i cant spell) these 2 people have help me get in the water with my seawind. someday i hope to repay there kindness. i think it is sort of like the movie " pay it forward) i help jeff out and jeff has to help 3 poeple. well i got helped by 2 people tom and wis. but even before i got here. i had help, peter richards from climateboatworks. gave me a set of sails. he is a great guy. and even does a good job, with his product.
i would like to see one mod per section. but how do we chose each person. i for one do not think i should be responsable for the muli section. I DONT HAVE ONE . but i can do a section on newbies
just an idea.
greg good to see you back
long live the cup and cris dickson
cougar

Greg, I can tell you that I have no problems and I even have some very close and good friends here…I all met them here @ rcsailing.net…an almost perfect forum…one thing, Doug Lord…when he will be gone…it will be heaven!!! Doug take it as you want…I dont care anymore! anyway all i say is taken as personal attack…i wonder why Matt didnt talk about the pm where i was trying to make things good and the ones where i helped you when you crashed the board…wondering!

see you later guys

Wis

_/ if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it! _

http://wismerhell.esmartdesign.com/index.htm

Greg and Roy,

It is clear that Doug’s postings are a trouble spot on this forum. I’m not denying that. There are several people like Dick Lemke that are quick to fight back once doug fires the opening shot (whatever it is) and discussions tank into the sewer in short order.

But at the same time, the rules that we claim Doug has broken are, in my opinion, pretty darn vague.

Looking back at what Cougar, Dan, Roy and Greg have said in the last few posts here, there is one common thread: the “Shove it down your throat” factor. This is the aspect of Doug’s postings that we need to find a way to deal with. For the most part it is not the advertising that is the problem but the unfounded claims. It is not the swearwords but the general tone and aggressiveness. So the rules that we are trying to apply to the situation are inadequate.

The rules as written dealt with the old symptoms of the disease. But since the rules came into existance, Doug has for the most part complied with them and yet the disease persists. Doug simply removed the swearwords and removed the trademark symbols and has kept right on doing the same old things that brought us to the point of writing the rules.

I would encourage the Moderators and Chad to dig a little deeper and see if they can glean what the real problem is that leads to so much hostility here. Perhaps there is a common thread that can be addressed with a revised set of rules that deal with the real problem and not just the symptoms…

But going a bit further, I would submit that these rules were written for and intended to be applied to only one person here - Doug. So why do we need general rules when we really only want to adjust one member’s behavior? Perhaps this is the more important question to ponder…

  • Will

Will Gorgen

<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by wgorgen

There are several people like Dick Lemke that are quick to fight back once doug fires the opening shot (whatever it is) and discussions tank into the sewer in short order.
Will Gorgen
<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>

Hi Will -

not that it is required that I defend myself, but I used to turn the other way and made little if any comment to Doug. I too did what you did, hinting about e-forum ettiquette, edit identification, repetitive posts, and similar issues - both on the original RC Sailing Net forum, and also on WindPower. Doug just didn’t take the hint, even when asked what he would do if he was asked about a demo or photos. No answer, just continuation of the same stuff. Dave Goebel and I shared our similar frustrations about the ongoing issues and the problems and bad feelings the forum posts were creating. The issue of refering to “non-believers” as RetroDudes was a word coined by Doug - not by anyone else. If Doug is still making direct email and PM message posts now, I assume he made them before, and while little is really said, enough between the lines reading of messages from Bill over on WindPower seem to indicate Doug sent one too many personal messages to the wrong person. I know that for a bit, I too was getting messages that boardered on the attack level. I simply chose to ignore most of them.

When I suggested that Doug should (perhaps) actually build and demonstrate some of his ideas, and when I pressed for detailed information about “registered Microsail multihull owners” is about the time I had decided I had enough. To this day, Doug insists these people exist, and to this day, my requests for a way to contact them have never been addressed. In the meantime, Doug used those ficticious numbers to make it “look” like Microsail was pumping out boats and the class was growing. Shortly after I began to investigate and started asking questions, was I told by Doug about the cancellation of orders, and the “return of money” due to too many projects to be built.

At about that time, we were still being baraged by promises of soon to be available models of various sizes incorporating yet another idea. The F-100 started as an offshoot of the IOM class, then canting keels were added and possibly spinnakers. Soon the canting keel F-100’s gave way to canting keels and double foils, which have since been replaced by a boat with collective steering. At the same time frame, the D4Z multihull came and went. No additional F3 foilers have been sold. The promoted Flyer Cubed 2 Meter multihull boat lost interest perhaps due to high costs. The AeroSkiff (R/c version) came and went - with production problems blamed on Rob Guyatt and his inability to make the winch work the canting keel. At the time, it was a temporary problem, …“but Rob is working on it!” I was told when I asked. Now I don’t know Rob, but find it remarkable that <u>HE</u> could/would have the same work/production ethics as Doug. The MicroMoth was another announced project that still hasn’t seen the light of day, but I can’t begin to count the number of posts we all were subject to telling us this was going to revolutionize r/c sailing as it was known. Owners could even “jump” their boat out of the water if they wanted to! (what owners?) The MAX z86 class was going to be the big development for clubs for a “corporate type” of boat. The spinnaker equipped America One and the Spinnaker 50 boats that revolutionized sailing have been pput on limited production due to lack of interest/sales. Moveable Power ballast and rotating foils on multihulls have yet to be seen - even though there are claims the boats have been tested and raced against another like boat - yet when asked for photos of proof of their performance, the question was a “personal attack”!

These are all from the guy who bills himself as the person trying to help educate new sailors to the r/c hobby. And from a personal standpoint, I’ve been told I’m stupid, I don’t know anything about what I post, I don’t understand, and I couldn’t be more wrong - all from the guy who has been proven to be an outright liar. I don’t care if he lies about himself, or about his products. If he exagerates or stretches the truth. Eventually he is caught, and then the “spins” start. One good spin deserves another and pretty soon he is so entangled that he starts the flame wars. Once is OK. Twice is tolerable. But in the end EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT, LOCKED TOPIC, PERSONAL ATTACK seems to have a common person involved - <u>DOUG</u> ! Not just here, but back on WindPower too. He tried it on Sailing Anarchy and enough of the readers there simply told him off when he injected Microsail into a thread about the editor buying an IOM! All of these just contribute to the issue for me, of when I was dragged into the attacks and had accusations made about a variety of things. Those too were lies, and on a personal email basis I told Doug to knock it off becuase I have a nasty habit of saving "odd’ email messages. My comment to Doug at the time, was to stop with the personal and PUBLIC posts, or I would retaliate in kind. Doug didn’t - but I did! I hate liars - especially when I am the subject of the lie. What Doug wants to say about himself and what he posts is subject to questions. Not all of the questions (or their answers) see the light of day. But as noted in the PM posted by Dan Sherman - Doug’s disdain of Bill Hojnacki ( a customer too) is evident in Doug’s name calling (Hojnastie) - NOT a spelling error by the way, as I have an email or two that Doug referred to him by that name.

The biggest problem I have is the lying that Doug continues to perpetuate. From races sailed by a mysterious number of boats no one has seen, to customer/class members who can’t have their existance verified, to the number of boats claimed to have been sold, to personal lies even about himsself in an attempt to build both his ego and his reputation. I had it. I told him so, and he chose to ignore my warnings. What I do now is directly the result of Doug ignoring repeated suggestions and warnings. Don’t feel sorry for him, as he is the master of his own destiny. My gut feeling is there are others who have not come forth that are as tired of Doug as some of us more vocal people. They have their choice to defend or complain. Staying quiet is another choice. In the end, I suggest that Doug will eventually be gone, the forum will quiet down, and like WindPower - an exchange of ideas and the rejection of same will be able to be done in an adult matter. If in doubt, I continue to post at Windpower and the lack of anger toward anyone there is also self-evident. In the end, I have posted my opinions and views here. I do not send email messages or PM’s to Doug. What I would say in those messages I simply say here.

And before anyone wants to come to his defense (welcomed - but please use real examples if you must) keep in mind the people who have been kicked in one way or another by Doug…<hr noshade size=“1”>
Roy Langbord - an r/c sailor who has the means and makes use of them to attend a variety of r/c events around the country. (Unlike Doug)
Rob Davis current IOM US Class Secretary.
Greg Vasileff former northeast regional director.
Dick Lemke - former acting F-48 Class Secretary
Bill Hojnacki - customer (F3) and also F-48 “NIGHTMARE” owner, along with a bunch of other boats.
Peter Birch - Queensland (AU) Multihull chairperson.
Three of the four “volunteer” moderators.
One forum adminstrator (may soon two)
An undetermined number of forum readers.
A few European r/c sailors
…and the list goes on.

Can ALL of these people be wrong and only one individual (Doug) be right? I (personally) don’t think so! But - then again, it’s “MY” side of the story.

Along with Gale’s and some others this piece of junk by Lemke is such an outrageous distortion of the truth using half truths and pure fabrications to make his point. I can answer these accusations point for point but because of the attemp by Wis and Dan to divert attention from their actions of a week ago I can’t.
But I assure you; I guarantee you the truth will be told!

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

Doug

Because of your accumulated past actions and the post above, you have just earned yourself a permanent ban from all of rcsailing.net. Do not try and post new messages, they will be deleted as soon as they are found by the mods. As soon as Chad has time your ability to use the forum to send e-mail and pms will be revoked.

Your above post is final proof to me that you cannot control what you say, or conduct yourself in a manner appropriate for this forum. The vicious cycle of you behaving and then breaking all the rules is unacceptable and ends now.

To all other forum members:

  1. If you receive any kind or retaliatory pms or e-mails please let all the mods know immediately.
  2. Do not reply to any new post made by Mr. Lord, alert the moderators and the post will be deleted.

Moderator
Dan Sherman

<font color=“red”>Thread locked as evidence.</font id=“red”>