hi as i was given these plans for free by the designer ernst zemman he has given me permission to post the links to his plans for all to download for free.so here is the link to the plans they are in several formats including pdf enjoy.
http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php?t=49502
:zbeer:
hi if anyone does decide to use the plans it would be nice to know as im building her in the spring!!.
I’m not too fond of the flat surface hull bottoms - I still subscribe to the “U” shaped sections, although the new “A” Class cats do transition to flatter (not flat) aft sections.
Once daughter is moved to her new home and basement is free from being a “storage site”, I hope to get back to the WATER RESIST that is waiting for me.
The WATER RESIST project has lingered long enough. From inception, a lot of horse shows, a stroke, a daughter moving from one house to a new one but with a stop between, and a couple of grandkids all contributed to the project being put on hold for one reason or another. I “think” Santa is bringing a new Spektrum radio, so there will be some expenses for additional receivers, and then some of the other projects can start hitting the water.
whats wrong with the flat bottoms? its sounds from all accounts of the people who actually owned this boat its very fast and stable too.id say the proof is in the pudding.when i asked about this boat you never mentioned anything about what you just said. now ive made the plans available incuding frames etc so i guess people can make theire own minds up .like i said ive asked people who had the boat and they say its a fast stable easy to sail boat rather than just say you dont like something could you back this up with some details.or at least reasons why you dont like them is it just a personal preference or something else?.ive read a cpl of posts by hoj who had this boat and he said the boat was fast and easy to sail.ive read posts on other sites about the ghost train for example saying how they needed to modify the floats as they lack volume and sink at the bow too easy yet a few people seem to be building this one.i have a friend whos building the ghost so it will be interesting o see which one sails the better of the two if we can actually get together and sail them.
I’m not getting into a personal pi$$ing match (again) with Ernst.
The plans and their earlier versions have been and were made available for a long time (2000 - or 2001 perhaps) on the web. Ernst indicates he has built/sailed the boat. There are two boats that I know of that have actually sailed. The first was built by a fellow here in Arizona (after he finally got Ernst to send him the parts) and was subsequently sold to Hoj in Hawaii. The second was sold to a fellow in Finland. Since it’s introduction by Ernst, quite a few were “sold” as we were told, but none ever were delivered in sailing condition. I’m sure if you search the archives here on this form, you can find a lot of detail about the designer, the problems, and a few design comments by others - as well as upset former customers. I do not (and did not) think it necessary for a re-hash again. It’s there if you want to search and read. Also make note of the many multihull threads that became “CLOSED” by moderators due to the designers posts and direction.
Regardless of all of that, of the two boats sailing, none have (to my knowledge) competed in or shown up in any results. With the hotbed of r/c multihull sailing activity in both France and the UK, and Austria being relatively close, I would have thought the designer would actively participate, race and promote his designs. Most designers of multihulls do this …the former Mike Howell (UK) with his SNAPDRAGON design (and his 2 Meter “BODY & SOUL”), Andy McCulloch (UK) with FREIGHT TRAIN and GHOST TRAIN designs (and his 2 Meter MIDNIGHT OIL design) and of course Mike Friend (UK) with (PULSE) the 1998 or 1999 UK Championship boat. Add in a few of the French guys - Pierre Gonet (not sure of spelling) as an example - so one wonders why a road trip at least once a year to attend a nearby (relatively speaking) regatta never took place and the boat never participated in any of the French or UK multihull events. The multihull guys sailing in Australia and New Zealand also had opportunity to obtain free plans and build them but haven’t. As you indicated, your German translation might not be too good, but email Wis (members page and former moderator here) and ask him to translate some of the comments on the German site for you.
Forgetting all of this prior stuff - as you say, the folks building can make up their own minds. And - if you confine yourself to sailing by yourself or maybe with one or two others, it really doesn’t matter. One must remember as well that the GHOST TRAIN plans go back to the early 1990’s and even in big multihulls, design evoloution takes place as does change. I just ponder why, if plans for the “NIGHTMARE” series of boats are out there, none seem to be racing or sailing in any numbers?
Not wanting to get into yet another discussion, let’s leave it that based on current design trends in the big multihull world, I don’t find the design something I want to spend time building. That said, we can remain on friendly terms and we don’t have to go down the former road again. I look forward to seeing your efforts come to life, and even more so seeing how it matches up with the proven designs that are out there. Good luck on your build.
Wow i guess it was something else!!theres clearly a history between you guys,i was asking a question regarding your remarks not anything to do with anything that anyone else might have done or said.It seems a touchy subject but all i can say is i have nothing to do with ernst i was merely making some plans available as they were kindly given to me.Im not wanting to get into any arguments here please dont think i am ,im just a little confused to be honest.There doesnt seem to be many plans out there for tris as it is so i thought i was doing people a favour to be honest.I should hope we can stay freindly i dont think ive done anything wrong but anyway no worries have a nice christmas.
Hey - nothing personal between you and me - you are free to distribute what you want from whom to whomever. My first response may needs to be re-read again - as all I said was I didn’t care for flat bottoms and preferred “U” Shaped hulls like the big Nacra/Inter boats which more resemble today’s thinking for hulls. In fact the only comment I made was my personal dislike of the design - the remainder of post was my desire to get back to my building project.
rather than just say you dont like something could you back this up with some details.or at least reasons why you dont like them is it just a personal preference or something else
my feelings regarding the NIGHTMARE design series:
- Hulls are very “square” for length and not much float hull height from water amidships in the float.
- Flat bottom and decks that don’t shed water easily once they are punched down into/under waves.
- R/C Helicopter blades for daggerboard and rudder? Not much lift generated from them - and less lateral resistancce too.
- Floats are bows down, so if heeled the bows go down but not much buoyancy toward middle/rear of floats as reserve buoyancy. Once the bows are down - where does any additional buoyancy come from? Watching the Morrelli/Melvin maxi-multis one can see the middle of the floats touching first, then the buoyancy moves back toward the stern, and then the bows start to depress. The NIGHTMARE design seems to be in reverse of this conventional wisdom from these top designers. Then again, M&M seem to be making money off their designs so I would tend to think they are probably “more right”. - my opinion
- And the personal issue of taking money but not supplying the product. He lost all credibility with me on that issue and pretty much killed any interest from folks looking to purchase short kits or complete, ready-to-sail multihulls. People went away once the stories came out of the impossibility of getting a product or refund. Perhaps that is even more reason why I have little interest in him and his ideas.
No need to read anything into this that would suggest you NOT post the plans/lines. If I did give that impresson, I’m sorry.
EDIT: Added some of Ernst’s drawings dating back to 2000 - look kind of familiar? These are the ones he made available for free back then as opposed (last drawing) of more conventional design theory - but you decide, after all it’s your boat. As I said earlier good luck on the build. Post some photos as you proceed.
Hi on the plans i posted the floats and hull dont have a square shape the bottom is rounded.There are two versions on closer inspection of the plans one has a flat bottom the other a rounded one.Maybe this is a change in design .So what your saying in your opinion is a rounded bottom is better than a flat one?.Im not sure what the rudder and fin are but they look like carbon to me not helicopter blades i dont think.I wouldnt use those anyway id rather make my own from wood and glass them.I dont want to get involved with the other things either so ill just stick to the boat itself.Also from what i see on the plans the floats are very similar in height to the main hull and same goes for beam though narrowing off at the stern.I just thought id clear that up so people know its not a flat bottomed design if you choose the rounded version at least.
Mart
heres another drawing of what im saying.
Side view of my last posted cross section in case there is a problem with visualization. Remember, you are seeing both main hull AND float in this wire side view.
Just so people dont get confused here the nightmare does have a rounded hull and floats .
heres a rig plan .
heres a view of the rig plan.for the a rig.
the frames
frames!!main hull!!
id be interested in how many guys have downloaded the plans ive provided? seems a few are looking but no ones saying much?.