new IACC20 class help

they are certain people out here. that are trying to get a new class going, this is not for the advanced racer. but for everybody who like to sail. fast looking boats. chicco and I have been working on a smaller version of the IACC cup boats. And what i need is help form all the experts out there. on rules and how to organize this class. basicly what we had in mind was a 1/20 scale version of the iacc boat. but with a IOM keel. also trying to keep the boat under $1000 us. if this could be accomplished , then we could get more people invovled into sailing. chicco already has his boat . and i will be working on NZL 60 . but i realy want NZL 32 “black majic”. this is a class that shows some promise. but we need help in setting down rules.
so if there is anybody out there who could help
i would like it

Sorry, I’m not so good with scale. What are the dimensions of this proposed new class cougar?

When looking at Chicco?s Prada, if this is the boat you are referring to, it seems that it might be a very tender boat.? I would think that in any wind over 7 knots that it might be a battle to keep the boat well mannered at all. But this is only how it looks to ‘me’.
The only problem I see with you starting this new class is that no one really knows just what they may be starting? I mean is this class based on great ‘looking’ boats that may not sail so good?

As far as setting down some rules, It would be hard to even start this without knowing just what you and Chicco are trying to accomplish. What are your goals for this class?
When it comes down to it, I don’t see how this can happen until you guys actually build and sail these boats, because I am sure you will have to refine them. It would be a bad situation if you started writing rules based on idea alone. If the idea dose not give the results that you had hoped, then either the rules will have to be re-written, or you will be stuck with a dead end class.

But firstly, just exactly what do you have in mind as to haw this boat will look? Size, appendages, sails?
Look forward to hearing about this.

thanks greg for your input.
this was an idea i had in my head for the last 2 years. the AC class is just too big . 78 inch hull is unrealistic for the person living in an apartment. so I tought of a hull about 1.2 meter long or 1/20 scale. wieghting in using IOM wieght. agian to keep the cost down. you can make your own bulb or by one for about $25 us. this was just me idea, and then i met chicco how built one. prada, is good is most conditions but you would have to talk with him, about how his boat sails., this is why i posted this . we need help from people who would like to build in this class. basiacly what we are propesing is a 1/20 scale boat. (i will use nzl 60 here) the boat will be 1.27 meter long, and have a beam of 20.5 cm. the sail area will be around 938 sqr inch. this boat is just a litlle bigger than a IOM or us 1 meter. but would allow the IOM skipper , the use of the keels. and the US imeter skipper the use of carbon fibre., we could use both top the advantage of everybody. i came up with the idea but for the actaul boat, you will have to talk to chicco. he is a good guy and will talk with people. there is plenty of intrest where i am , in this class that is why i am asking for advice.
thanks greg for you help
and this is not an attack

The full scale IACC rule is somewhat complicated and is not a typical building rule as used by most r/c racing classes. To scale down the IACC rule you would be dealing with girth, weight, waterline and sail area measurement combinations and tradeoffs. Not many builders are comfortable in this area.

Another problem with a scale IACC class is the vast changes that the boats have undergone since its inception. Essentially, the New Zealand boat that won the cup in San Diego would not be able to compete with any of the current generation IACC boats. (It almost seems you could fit two of the current generation boats inside their earlier counterparts.)

If your goal however is to create an approximately one meter long boat with the general appearance of an IACC boat, there might be a few easy, existing alternatives. First, you would be shocked what paint and decals can do. In New Zealand before the last cup, the Team New Zeland store had Seawinds painted to match their boats and they looked great. If you also look at the Chesepeake Performanace Models site, you can see CR914s painted to look like America One and Stars and Stripes and again the boats looked great. A second alternative is to look at the manuactuers who already make IACC models. Victor Products has its Ill Moro and America3; I don’t think they look all that scale but with the right paint, a scale deck and a different rig they might look a lot closer to the real boats. And finally check the Wind Warrior site out of NZ, They also make an IACC model that with scale paint and detailing might be exactly what you are looking for. Perhaps the biggest advantage of using existing boats is that if you are really trying to start a racing class, you have a pool of boats already available and don’t have to find scratch builders to start your fleet.

Cougar, it looks like you’re boat would be about 50" overall and about one meter on the waterline. Chicco’s boat looked good but how does it sail? The biggest problem in scaling an IACC boat is the relationaship of the sail area to displacement. A scale IACC rig would be virtually impossible at this length with a fin length limited to that of an IOM. I think it is an excellent idea to build a few boats and test sail them and then draw up rules.
But to make that work so that you learn the most from these early boats I would suggest copying Chicco’s boat, in the principal dimensions, exactly- then each of the founders build a boat and sail it for awhile. At that point you could compare notes and decide if you want a one design class, a development class or something halfway in between. By starting off with nearly identical boats you will have a frame of reference to use to make these decisions…Good Luck!

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

this is what i am doing. I am going to be building nzl 60 . in the scale of 1/20. and you can follow it on the website. they will be a scale down version. same as chicco. so to all of you . it seems that we are on the right way , thank you you all. it was good advice, and any more coming my way is greatly welcomed. the boat doug , is about 1.27 meters with a waterline of 1 meter. so the only difference so far, that i can see is the sail area. chicco is almost 940 sqr inch. my own IOM has 830 sqr inch, so what i am talking about is 100 sqr inch of sail will make alot of difference. but maybe add 500 grams to the bulb? this may counteract the bigger main.? we will have 2 boats in the water by the middle of the summer. I will be building NZL 60 and If i can get the drawing for NZL 32 i will build that. one of the members of my own club is intrested in alhingi. and is looking for drawing. this is why I think i need a litlle help.
does anyone know where i can great some help with the sails? or set up some quidelines? this boat should come in at price of $1000 us. hopefully that will include the radio. i know wishfull thinking
thanks guys, and hmmmmmmmm no personal attacks just helpful advice.
i like it

sorry i missed you with the last post
what i am looking for is a boat around 1.2 - 1.5 meters long. just big enough to fit in a car. second, the sail area would be max. 950 sqr. or as close to the orginal as possible. now you are right in saying that starting a new class, at this moment is the wrong thing to do. these boats may turn out to be dogs , in the water. and we may have to tweak them. this is why i asked for some help. the orginal marbleheads were just where i am. 2 people with an idea.i did not even know that chicco existed until i saw his boat on this board. now we have become friends, he is working on the new zealand boat that competed in 92, same scale , i hope they work out

hi folks
just to keep you updated nzl 60, the hull is 50% done. and it only took me 5 hours
i have photos. but i dont know how to put them in

<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by cougar

but i dont know how to put them in
<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>

Cougar - email them to me here at work, and I will give it a “shot”. Sending work email to you via Personal Message

dick i am not doug lord
you do not have to qoute me:-) just look above and you will see what i wrote
are you mad at me too?
hope not. i count you as a friend
so i guess you can now say i am off the fence:-( and i am anti doug lord

the hull for nzl 60 is done
hurray? just need to do some sanding and it is in the water.
but now come to a problem
the fin. how do most of you sailors attach your fin. I am thinking abotu taping a 4/40 hole and using a 1 inch bolt. down though the deck. any other ideas?
also i am going to be doing my own sails? any ideas on sail material?

Weight spreadsheets…remember? :wink:
NZL 32 is waiting…

nzl 32 is being laid down this weekend. i have to finish nzl 60 first. but you want alot of data. i could send you want i have now? . you want weight on servos hull ,ruddder, keel, bubl, mast, send me the spead sheet agian? and i will transfer my number with yours. so that you get what you need

<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by cougar

…but now come to a problem
the fin. how do most of you sailors attach your fin. I am thinking abotu taping a 4/40 hole and using a 1 inch bolt. down though the deck. any other ideas?..
<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>

Lloyd, check out this thread for some ideas about this

does anybody think a 4/40 bolt. that is 1 inch into the keel will be strong enough to hold it up into the trunk? or should i rebuild the fin and make the top end thicker to accept the bigger bolt?
nzl 60 is now done. just need to install the fin. and set up the sails.
troy i have the data for you. i have given the data to my wife. and she will punch up the report for you

Cougar, my S50 uses a 7+lb(3+kg) bulb and the keel fits into a 1"(25mm) high trunk molded into the hull. I use a 4/40 threaded rod molded into the fin when it is laid up and thread on a locknut and sealing washer to install it.

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

I use a piece of 10/32 stainless moulded into the fin. Is this over kill? What do other people use?

Vancouver Island