Rob, any pix of the Illusion with the spin up? Are they built in the US, do you know?
By the way, square headed and peaked up fat heads still qualify nicely as “modern” but who cares: it’s their aerodynamic superiority that counts, right?
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing
yacthie 24
thats the one. they looked just like the real ones. god they must have been a blast to drive. do they still make them?
cougar
greg
that looks to be a fun class. i have never heard of it. but they look like a challenge to sail
cougar
Hi everyone,
most of the mini 12’s that you would have seen are actually 2.4 Metres, which are designed for disabled sailors, it has a fin keel, parallel mast 1 set of spreaders, no kite and doesn’t have a Genoa (overlapping jib), will try to get some photos of it in rough conditions as I have sailed it in 30+ knots a couple of times, will also try to take some photos of it with the kite up for you. I think they are only made in Sydney, Australia. We know of 3 Challenge 12’s (‘83 Australian Challenger) and 2 Australia 2’s (1983 America’s Cup Winner)!!
Doug the square headed mains have been around for many years on A Class cats and all the Australian Skiffs (12’, 14’, 16’ & 18’).
I am about to try to link to a photo gallery of 2.4 images from sailmelbourne.
here goes… no that didn`t work
maybe I can send the address?
http://sailmelbourne.com.au/gallery/view_album.php?
Yes it sort of works, when you get there click on the list for 2.4R or just have a look around.
Who`s a clever boy then?[:-propeller][:-hspin]
Do it NOW before it`s too late.
The 2.4m is nothing like the Illusions, they are designed for disabled sailors, Illusions were designed for cheap fun match racing, they are a complex machine, requiring the skipper to place the lead, which are in bags, in the correct spot to balance it correctly, 2.4m’s have a FIN KEEL, where the Lead is left in its spot. The 2.4m’s don’t have kites, tappered masts, 2 sets of spreeders & a whole lot of other fine tuning stuff!!! but one thing I would think they both have in common is that they both sail like real keelboats, I know the Illusion does, haven’t sailed a 2.4 so don’t know about them!!!
For less than the price of a “top-of-the-line” Marblehead, now you too can compete (or pretend to) for the America’s Cup!
<center>
</center>
<center>1984 Illusion Mini 12 Meter</center>
Illusion Class Mini-12 Meter sailboat, a one-person, 12’ fin-keeled sailing yacht. This thing is in excellent shape, is absolutely loaded with upgraded gizmos and sails beautifully. The hollow keel is filled with Sunbrella bags full of lead shot, so it feels much more like sailing a big boat than a twelve-footer. The sailor is nestled down under the deck with just his head sticking out and steers with foot controls. Most of the hardware is Harken, some custom-built and it comes with two sets of sails - a Kevlar set with radially-cut main, jib and Genoa and a set with fancy, traditionally finished main and Genoa in Egyptian Dacron - also two spinnakers. I’m a sailmaker and this was my own boat, so no expense was spared on the sails and they are in great shape. A mini-boom cover and Sunbrella jib sock are also included. The boat sits in cradles on a galvanized, modified jet-ski trailer that is in nearly new condition. It’s only been in the water a half-dozen times in the last 10 years and I just don’t get enough use out of the boat to keep it and I need the space in the garage for other stuff, so it has to go. For the less than the price of a new Sunfish or Laser, you can be sailing your own yacht!
<center>Here you go COUGAR !!! [:-hspin]</center>
<center>addiction.sailmakers@charter.net
$2700.00 Madison, Wisconsin</center>
just jumped in and had a look at this forum and find it pretty interesting.
I have to agree with Mathew and Roy though on how are you going to sail it. I sail every week on a 6.5 metre sports boat amd have done a lot of other yachting and we sail 4 up and it is a hand full and one guy can only just hold onto the gennaker on his own with all of his effort and the helmsman helping him out by steering proper angles. How you are going to steer about sitting down and control a main a jib and a gennaker and a canting keel come on I think needs much thought. Remmber these other boats are 12ft long (3.7m) why so big and why do it at all. The problem been here and we have it down here all of these one off boats are built and you can never race them evenly and the class boats suffer so you end up sailing to handicap racing only.
Cheers Blair
Blair, it all is in the design:look at the Swift Solo -fourteen feet LOA -main,jib and asymetric sailed from a trapeze. The Martin 16 has an asymetric ,main and jib and is sailed sitting inside.
The ML5 will be able to be sailed using a powered or manual canting keel though I favor the powered version a lot.That will give finger tip control to the canting keel. There are a number of ways to do this boat and nearly all of them are being looked at…
The central goal is to wind up with a high performance ,crew weight equalized single handed keel boat with a retractable canting keel innovative rig and asy spin-though I am going to test a scaled up “America One” type symetrical spinnaker that could be handled as simply as an asymetric.
A lot of work has been done over the last few months up here to study and develop new solutions for lateral resistance-more coming soon.
All in all this could be an exciting boat to sail and to see…
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing
Blair,
Ive sail boats like you do all the time as well.The ML5 is quite different.
I am leaning towards a fixed keel version.I don’t have the expertise in design for the canting keel.
Few people do it would seem.
There are many examples of similar boats to what has been discribed here.
Brett
Another new boat to add to the mix of singlehanded keelboats like the Martin 16 and 2.4 meter: the Bongo. See the new Sailing World(March Issue) or this link:
http://www.sailabongo.com/m/_general/default.asp
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing
I thought some might be interested in the progress on this project.
I have attached an image of the design that is getting close to its final form.
In the end the canting keel was a no go…I investigated it as much as I could,but it is not for me at this time.
So as you can see from the image we have a nice “conventional” looking 4.700mm long keel boat with a beam of 800mm and an all up weight of 270kg incl the single sailor.
10 sq m of sail…not sure if it will carry extras off the wind or not.
cheers
Brett
Download Attachment: [ 4.7m keelboat.jpg](http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/data/Brett/2004320222917_4.7m keelboat.jpg)
21.62KB
In response to a question about the status of his various projects Doug Lord said that this boat was not actively being developed. Also in the initial posts here it was claimed that the canting keel and the asymetrical spinnaker were integral parts of this design and would enable it to be “capable of beating larger crewed yachts around the racetrack.”
This latest post seems contradictory on both counts. Would love to know what happened. Particulary interesting since Doug made some pretty big claims for this project.
I do not know of the status of Dougs projects.
It is true we were going to work together on this…in the end I have developed this design without his help.
I listened to Doug in the early stages,did research of my own and in the end have come up with what you see.
Maybe Doug has continued development of the orginal idea on his own…I don’t know.
But I do know that I have a workable design that will be built and become reality(even if I only ever build 2 to match race).
I make no bold claims for this design…it is what you see, a nice managable singlehanded keelboat,ideal for all types of sailors with a crew weight equalization system that should enable all shapes and sizes of helm to race each other.It will have the look and feel of larger crewed keel boats and will lend itself well to close tactical racing at a very economical cost.
My hope is that this design can bring sailing plearsure to those who sail it.
Thats all
cheers
Brett
Note: this boat will feature a weight equalization system for skippers up to 220-25Olb.'s Such a system for small singlehanded keelboats was pioneered ,as far as I know, by Don Martin in the Martin 16. Other small crewed raceboats use various types of weight equalization systems since weight on a small boat is such a performance issue.
edt:wght equalization
edt:ad info2nd para+
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing
Brett: Thanks for the information. I think your idea has a good chance of making it into reality.
Also your post is a refreshing contrast to the claims above of potential “tremendous” speed advantages of a completely unbuilt, untested and unproven design.
P.S. I see now Doug has the “VARA tm” system along with the “kFOIL tm”. And the beat goes on…
UPDATE: Doug Lord says below that the “VARA tm” system is not his idea or trademark. I stand corrected. I guess there might be others out there in the world doing “beyond ultimate” trademark work. Who knew? And the beat still goes on…
Roy, I’m trully amazed that you don’t know what the Vara? system is!
It is a rudder concept that places a daggerboard like foil in a rotating cylinder or trunk with upper and lower watertite bearings.
The advantages are:1) a rudder’s area can be varied without changing its angle,2) a rudder can be fully retracted without having to be transom hung,3) it can conceivably allow a CBTF boat to have retractable foils that, combined with a retractable canting keel, could allow it to be trailerable albeit at fairly high cost in dollars and room.
I did not invent it but it is a very good idea anyway!(ha)…
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing
[:-paperbag]Brett, Your design looks great to me. Like a giant sit in one metre. what a lot of fun not just for disabled sailors but also us old farts who can no longer sit out a sailing dinghy for hours at a time.
Good luck and keep us informed.[:-party]
Edit: Brett please tell everyone where you live in this world?[-crzwom]
Do it NOW before it`s too late.
Thanks for your positive comments Ian and Roy.
Ian is right…the boat is great for “older” sailors who still want to race small boats without the need for to much physical effort.
I have incorparated a lifting keel and rudder so the yacht can easily be launched and retrieved .
Some of the other boats of this type require a crane at the dock, or a cumbersome dolly.
I think there is temendous potential for boats of this type at present…I am saving scraps of Western red cedar like mad so I can build one soon.I will most likely plank it up in 20 x 6mm cedar with glass both sides.
After the bugs are worked out of the proto then I will seriously consider the potential for producing them.
And Ian…I am about 10 hrs drive from you in Dunedin,New Zealand.I raced against you at the Murray Roundtree memorial( IOM class) race some years ago.
Cheers
Brett