Mac Rig and Round Ranger combination

RG65 Class General Discussion (RG65)
1

Hi Sailors, best Regards from South America:
I just bought a Round Ranger hull from Craig Huzway at BreakingWinds site, design by Bill Hangerup, and I want to built my new RG65 combining this great hull design testing it with a Mac Rig.

Craig told me before shipping my hull this will be the first Ranger that will compete in South America, so it’s a great honor to have this opportunity.

I will sincerely appreciate any comments about the best way to complete my project, specially information about measures for the right keel and rudder position.

Any comments about your experience comparing the different performance between the three Rig options (conventional, swing, Mac Rig)? I review this interesting survey http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/showthread.php?6393-USA-RG65-Hull-design-and-rig-survey
and I hope I can ear from some of the experienced skeepers about his experience with this RR- Mc Rig option.

Thanks in advance, photos from your construction projects having this RR-Mac Rig combination will be sincerely apreciated.

Saludos,
Mapache
CHI-65, Victoria
CHI-65, RG65

2

the round ranger I believe is very similar in shape to the cobra 5.

http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/showthread.php?6027-RG65-Cobra5-Patterns&highlight=round+ranger

  1. Distance from the transom to the leading edge of the fin 35.0 cm
  2. Distance from the transom to the center of the rudder tube 6.0 cm
  3. Distance from the bow station to the mast step tube 21.7 cm
  4. ID of mast step tube 1/8 “
  5. Length of the rudder 15.0 cm
  6. Distance from the bottom of the hull to the bottom of the keel bulb 37.0cm

the printout from Craigs site show the measurements in inches…

http://breakingwindboats.webs.com/PDF%20Files/RANGER%20SIDE.pdf

3

Ok Marc, thanks for your information, I will consider this data.
I’m still waiting the package, it’s on his way to my home.
I hope be sharing some photos once I start my project.
I realy appreciate your help
Regards,
Claudio

4

Marc:
I was wondering, if I use the Mac Rig option, do you think this could change in some way the measures you sent?
Claudio

5

Claudio
I never compared the measurements between the first (chine) Ranger to the Round Ranger. Marc gave you the link to measurements to both. Attached pics are of my 2 Round Ranger sails, one mac rig one swing rig. I use these on 2 R- Rangers. Both hulls are the RR measurements from my site. Both are well balanced and sail to windward with just a bit of weather helm.(a good thing)
My sails are drawn on the computer and I can plot the center of area this way. As I understand it this is a static CE point.
I say static because sailing is anything but static. I use this as a reference point for the most part.
I hope you can see these marks (black dots on the sails)
Swing rig main has 2. rear one is CE for the main Front/lower is the total CE for the rig.
Mac has one CE mark. Maybe I just got lucky you can see when the sails are on top of each other mast steps and tops aligned the marks are within 3-4mm front to back. That is why both work with the same mast hole. This was always a mystery to me when I started (not that I know that much more now) but it helps make sense in my mind.
I started drawing all the sails I could find in the computer and plotting the center of area this way, and putting different sails on top of each other to see where the mast step really moves to and why.
A Conv rig is much more forgiving. 1 you and rake the mast with fore stay/back stay. 2 you can center mast side to side with stays.
3 easy to have more than one step.
With swing and mac they are keel stepped for all practical purposes. this is much more difficult to do so that it is in the correct place both fore and aft and side to side. 3 tubes in a row gives you something to play with, other than that it is back to re cutting sails to move the CE if needed.
One big thing with the Mac rig is the top of the mast should be over top of the pivot. if someone gives an angle for the mast take it with a grain of salt, it really means nothing to “your” rig. Another thing is rather than move to another mast hole in the hull, the vert. wire can be bent at the boom to move the CE up there on the sail fore and aft. Again the hardest part is getting the tubes in the hull so the rig is centered side to side.
To answer your question
“Marc: I was wondering, if I use the Mac Rig option, do you think this could change in some way the measures you sent?”
Yes and No :slight_smile:
If I’m wrong on any of this sorry I’m still pretty new, but I try.
Craig
RG#58 a,b,c,d and soon e

6

What craig said…:slight_smile:

7

Hi Craig:
Thanks for your complete explanation, I trust absolutely in your experience and feelings about how this puzzle works or must be solved. If you think your are new on this and this is just your best try, let me said what I read seems to me like a lesson coming from my master teacher. Thanks for your generosity for sharing.

If you think you are new on this, let me say I just discover RC Sailing since March of this year, and I am starting in these few months my 3rd boat and getting involved in two classes. Lot of work and road to be learn for me. With your valuable help, I am shortening the complex process of understanding this facinating world. Thanks, for your kind help.

Thanks a lot also to Marc for your fast responses and for this contact with Craig.

8

Craig and I sail together on a regular basis. I have built two of his round rangers and one of his Pikanto’s.

I opted for a Sloop rigs…so I’m not as well versed in the Mac, Swing rigs

9

Hi Claudio
Join this group.

Yahoo Groups RG65SailboatsUS

Link below may help you decide on a rig.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RG65SailboatsUS/message/3196

10

Ok, thanks for the invitation, I’ll do that.
Saludos,
Claudio

11

Marc:
I am very interested in your experience with Sloop Rig. As I see the things I’m just the only one with no experience, just 5 months, so for me your comments an Craig’ experience are a must. I apreciate the modesty of your comments, but beleive me, I think your experience is a fantastic guide for someone really new in this hobby.

Next posts will show some photos of my progress of my first RG I am finishing (a jif2 Puma with Swing Ring)
I am still waiting local customs process to receive my Round Ranger deck and Hull form Craig, to start the new project basing the design in your valuable data and posts. According to USPS, the package is near to be sent home pherhaps next week.

Regards,

12

Great link, exactly what I am interested in. As far as I understood from them it seems to me the best to do is to consider the Mac Rig for very high winds, so probably for a C rig and maybe a 4th size like D. With A and B sizes I beleive they are telling that a swing rig will work better.
So, probably I will try this schema: A and B as swing rig; C and D, Mac Rig. A totally new experience for me, comming from the tradicional Rig of my first Victoria.

We’ll see. Meantime I’m steel waiting the local custom shipping of my new Round Ranger to start with the show.
Thanks for your link, great help.
Mapache

Mapache, CHI - 65, Victoria
Mapache/Puma, CHI - 65, RG 65
Wilefko, CHI - ??, RG 65 “under construction” (Wilefko stands for "Brilliant Wate"r in Mapudungún native lenguaje)

13

swing rigs and McRigs are very efficient rigs, but IMO they can be easily overwhelmed. and since a Mc Rig and a Swing rig when going down wind the forces on the sail really want to push the bow down. and the benefit of the sloop rig is that you have significantly less of that downward push on the bow. but its a less efficent rig down wind, unless its a stay-less rig its hard to swap between races… but I feel the conventional sloop rig can be tuned/detuned much easier for changing conditions.

My first Roundranger was a Delta rig… and it was a good boat… had some issues with the boom hitting the water and in high winds it was hard to control. but the round ranger IMO is not a great heavy air boat, being its so skinny…

14

I agree Marc, you are right. But you know how is this RC sailing virus once it catcher your soul: you need to experiment this things by your own. I will consider your advice and experience seriously.

Pherhaps it’s important to say that in our local tournment, we use to compete in more or less 8 weekends per year with 6 of them with light to very moderate winds. Strong wind normaly arrise just at the national games during last weekend of October or first week of November. So taking that in mind that is why I’m seriously considering the use of the Mac Rig, because my bet is that when going down wind with light winds, she could be the fastest in more than half distance of the race. As I mention I am new in this hobby but no matter that I want to take the risk with this bet.
Does this make sense for those with so good experiences in RG’s with different combinations of rigs?
Mapache

15

Get a hold of the AMYA magazine that had the Reg as a featured boat, it has a complete build of the Round Ranger with a Mac rig. I will get issue number and more info as soon as I get back in to the shop.
I am building two per the magazine.

Manny

16

Hi Sailors:

At last, one year late due to a lot of issues that keep me out of our local RG-65 class here in Chile, including a little accident that broke the hull I bought from Craig Huzway, I was able to finish her.

Here, the exact moment she went to the water for the first time:
and here, sailing togheter with one of Craig’s Simitaras hull:

Here you can see the process of my construction:
https://www.icloud.com/iphoto/projects/#1;CAEQARoQ8be-_T0P1sxBLWAR-wKLyA;4ED058C4-66D8-4666-AD94-2BEEA7CB3A26

I am absolutely surprise with the good result of my boat. Very good performance, far over my expectations. Thanks for your help and all the information you shared with me in this forum. Everybody in our local team was so suprised how far ahead from the keel is the mast located. In fact before testing the boat on the pond, I was very worried that this parameter was not going to work. But it works and very well!

Here I enclose some vídeos of the first test in water happened this saturday 28-12-2013. You will see my Round Ranger sailing with a Simitara, the other hull design by Craig Huzway. Thanks Craig for your help and your great design.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjWbTd0b04w&app=desktop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd0XeKWHevo&app=desktop

I hope my Mapache CHI 65, is still the first Round Ranger in Chile. After summer holidays here we´ll see how much competitve will be this boat. In fact, I know it will be, the problem will still stay on my “fingers” capabilities . Sorry Craig, that´s something your design couldn´t improve for sure.

Next steps of my project is to built a complete set of Mc Rigs sails and test how do they work with light winds, compared with my Swing Rig sails.

My best wishes of success for all of you with your families for the new year 2014.
Best winds,
Claudio Sala

Mapache CHI-65, Victoria
Mapache CHI-65, RG-65
and soon 1M-ULY