i have been thinking about a class that would allow for ideas formed in the footy class to be tryed on a larger, more powerful scale… to an extent. the class would have its own rules, and thus be unique, but it might provide a place to see what happens when you stretch your hull length…
here is what i have come up with so far…
tell me what you think!
m505 class rules v 1.0 [these really should not yet be called “rules” as they are really just outlines… but the title works for now…]
-The boat, in racing trim shall fit into a box 505mm long and 252mm wide and 305mm deep. - the following may extend out from the box: rig - mast boom - sail; rudder[s]; bow sprit up to 50.8mm.
-Hull design shall be restricted to monohulls.
-Rig shall be restricted to a catrig.
-Ballast shall not move in reference to the hull.
-Mast height shall be no greater than 140% of length.
this is my first time drawing up a set of cohesive rules, so please, add your thoughts!:graduate::scared:
For the purposes of mast height, what is length? Where is the bottom end of ‘height’?
Exactly what is a monohull? Tunnel bottomed scow? If you’re not careful you end up needing a flotation tank and a measured (but not restricted)displacement. For examole, what happens if we take an extreme scow measured in fresh water and then go and sail it on the Great Salt Lake?
Rudder(s) need very carefull thought. Tyey’ve caused more problems with the Footy rule than anything else so far - and mostly for reasons that have no conceivable effect on performance.
Is an unballasted trim tab allowed?
Bumpkins?
Any restriction on B, C … rigs?
Any restrictions on electrics? Think carefully, neither the clearest nor the most sensible part of the Footy rule. For exam0ple, there’s no reason (except difficulty, weight, cost) why you can’t multiplex radio channels.
Not being negative at all. It sounds like a better boat than a Footy - better able to work at a sensible displacement. I think I’ve got your e-mail. If I have, I’ll send you some rules I drafted for a challenge to my nephew before I backed off and decided to get involved with Footys instead. They’re far from perfect but they might have siome ideas. Comnments are explanations to my father/brothers who vetted them
thanks angus, thats exactly what i was looking for - constructive critisism. now, i will go to work on V 1.1! [maybe i’ll post it by later today, you never know how long things take 'till you try them!]:rolleyes:
it comes together slowly, and this is nowhere near a finished product, but its slowly getting slightly closer!
M505 class rules V 1.1
A. [General]
The class is an open class: anything not restricted or prohibited is permitted.
B. [General Measurement]
B.1
-The boat, in racing trim shall fit into a box 505mm long and 252mm wide and 305mm deep. - The following may extend out from the box:
rig – mast - boom – sail; rudder[s]; either bowsprit OR bumpkin [not both] up to 50.8mm; antenna[and attached fittings]
C. [Hull]
C.1
-Hulls shall be of monohull design.
C.2
Min displacement: still coming!
D. [Rig]
D.1
-Rig shall be restricted to a cat rig.
D.2
-Mast height shall be no greater than 140% of the length of the boat. [Measured from the deck up.]
E. [Conditions for racing]
During an event ballast shall not be moved in reference to the hull. still adding!
F. [Radio]
F.1
-Radio gear is restricted to two servos - sail control, and rudder[s] control - and standard receiver equipment.
F.2
-Rudder servo will control the rudder[s] alone.
F.3
-Sail control servo will control Sail alone.
F.4
-Batteries must be housed inside the hull, and Shall be size “AA”.
G. [Appendages]
G.1 Still coming!
-Materials shall not be of density higher than lead; 11300kg/m3.
-Prohibited:
More than one bowsprit/bumpkin.
Both bowsprit and bumpkin.
Will the Micro Magic fit in the box? It’s slightly longer, 530mm, but may still fit. Having it included in your class could be a good thing, or maybe not. You might want to consider purposefully including or excluding it. At least then we’ll know who to blame when something goes wrong.
Well, here comes the rules freak again Just a couple of suggestions:
I would recommend using the definitions in the ISAF “Equipment Rules of Sailing” as a way to avoid a lot of confusion about what is an appendage, etc. An old, but probably perfectly serviceable set, can be downloaded from:
With that as a basis, I would suggest specifying what must be inside the box (hull and appendages) rather than trying to enumerate what may be outside the box.
You may want to consider adopting the 36R approach to rudder limitations. Rather than allowing it to be outside the box, which opens the door to all kinds of contention, the rule states that the rudder must be inside the box but that it can be turned 90 deg. to fit.
Rather than saying “cat rig,” which is a bit ambiguous, you might limit the boat to a single sail, thereby allowing square and lateen rigs and other things people may think up.
Good point earl, i am now headed back to the drafting board to make some changes…
as for micro magics, in my mind they could be included if you took a saw, chpped off 25mm, re-rigged it to have a cat-rig -or as earl says one sail. and other wise made to fit the rules… they seem to really be in a league of their own otherwise… not nessicarily faster, just too different to mix…
i hope to have revamped rules up later tonight!
:graduate:
this boat i hope could become a place where the size is still manageable, the rules are still flexible, and the price is still low, but the boat is big enough to move… fast footys anybody?
M505 class rules V 1.3
A. [General]
The class is an open class: anything not restricted or prohibited is permitted.
B. [General Measurement]
B.1
-The boat, in racing trim shall fit into a box 505mm long and 252mm wide and 305mm deep. - The following may extend out from the box:
Rig – mast - boom – sail; either bowsprit OR bumpkin [not both] up to 50.8mm; antenna [and attached fittings].
C. [Hull]
C.1
-Hull shall be of monohull design.
C.2
Min. displacement: 925g
C.3
Hull registration number shall be permanently –through painting on/engraving in/moulding in- inscribed on either interior or exterior of the hull.
D. [Rig]
D.1
-Rig shall be restricted to a single mainsail.
D.2
-Mast height shall be no greater than 140% of the length of the boat. [Measured from the deck up.]
a. “B” rig shall be no greater than 100% of hull length.
D.3
Prohibited: More than one bowsprit/bumpkin. Having both bowsprit and bumpkin.
E. [Conditions for racing]
During an event:
a. Ballast shall not be moved in reference to the hull.
b. No more than two rigs shall be used.
F. [Radio]
F.1
-Radio gear is restricted to standard two-channel radio control; sail control, and rudder[s].
F.2
-Rudder servo will control the rudder[s] alone.
F.3
-Sail control servo will control Sail alone.
F.4
-Batteries must be housed inside the hull.
G. [Appendages]
G.1
-Except for the rudder[s] the following are prohibited: moveable or retractable hull appendages.
G.2
The rudder[s] shall fit into the measurement box, but may be turned 90 degrees to do so.
G.3
-Materials shall not be of density higher than lead: 11300kg/m3.
i still need administrative rules, sail ident. and the like, but that only happens if it looks like the class will live…:scared:
Not yet another class?
Sorry my friend but that is my first reaction to your proposal.
What is going to make this 505 class any different to any other? :devil3:
I am going to be negative, which those who know me will tell you, is not my normal demeanour.
There are a number of classes already out there which cover some of your proportions and restrictions.
Why not support these and help their establishment and growth.
Check out the following; 10 Rater, 3 Rater, North 600, 36 Unrictricted, Multione, Canterbury J, F-100, plus others that may be recomended by others on this forum.
If you are to continue (and I hope you do, inspite of my raving) then I have some other questions.
Why only two channels?
Are exotics (carbon, kevlar etc) allowed?
In your latest draft B1 & G2 are incompatable.
Why a “Catrig”?
For Pete’s sake keep on going. The prospects of success are small, but so are those of every other new class. If nobody tried to innovate, we’d stuill be sailing the Mayflower.
No other specific comments at this stage except that the box of a 36R is fractionally over 36" in order to allow an outboard rudder on a 36" hull. I believe this was a fudge introduced sometime around 1990.
ian.
interesting you feel that this is just another run of the mill class, all the classes you listed are
A. mostly rating rule classes
B. much larger than what i propose
the goal of this class [in my mind] is to be somewhat like the footy, in that there is room to do your own thing, in a small, inexpencive class. however, because of the larger size of the boat it will move a bit faster, and thus design changes that are a little more subtle will [hopefully] be more evident. the only other little classes are the footy, and the one designs, [at least in the USA] and that too i think makes this class unique.
as for your questions:
the “catrig” is just a restriction that makes life a little more interesting, puts some restriction on sail area [because of the mast restriction] and give the class a somewhat uniform look.
as for kevlar/cf/etc, the rules say anything not prohibited or restricted goes.
i fixed the problem with the two rules, i will be editing 1.3 to correct it.
i appretiate your thoughts!
keep them coming!:zbeer:
Er, respectfully beg to differ. The 36R box is 37" long; the forward 3/8" of the hull must be elastomeric material. My understanding is the rule change was done to rationalize the old rule of 36" plus a bumper allowance. I admit this then gives you 7/8" in for a (turned) outboard rudder.
(I always thought it was quintessentially British that a 36 inch Restricted boat was 37 inches long. Sort of like discovering that Lower Wappington is at the top of the hill and Upper Wappington is in the valley below. And as usual, when you dig into it, there’s a perfectly good reason.)
Barrett: to the best of my (European) knowledge, a North American cat boat generally has its mast at the leading edge of the mainsail (I know that spimds a bit Irish, but it’s easy to write). Does that apply here?
Obviously this is not the only approach, but it looks a plausible one. I think it might be rather a tricky bicycle to ride - better hand/eye coordination than I possess.
at earls suggestion i removed that term “cat-rig” from the rules so that it just says “mainsail”. so while you are right, when i think “cat-rig” i see the mast as the leading edge of the sail - Laser style - i do not think it applies to this class anymore. just as long as it is only one sail!
The class is an open class: anything not restricted or prohibited is permitted.
B. [General Measurement]
B.1
-The boat, in racing trim shall fit into a box 505mm long and 252mm wide and 305mm deep. - The following may extend out from the box:
Rig – mast/boom/sail; either bowsprit OR bumpkin [not both] up to 50.8mm; antenna [and attached fittings].
C. [Hull]
C.1
-Hull shall be of monohull design.
C.2
Min. displacement: 925g
C.3
Hull registration number shall be permanently –through painting on/engraving in/moulding in- inscribed on either interior or exterior of the hull.
D. [Rig]
D.1
-Rig shall be restricted to a single mainsail.
D.2
-Mast height shall be no greater than 140% of the length of the boat. [Measured from the deck up.]
a. “B” rig shall be no greater than 100% of hull length.
D.3
Prohibited: More than one bowsprit/bumpkin. Having both bowsprit and bumpkin.
E. [Conditions for racing]
During an event:
a. Ballast shall not be moved in reference to the hull.
b. No more than two rigs shall be used.
F. [Radio]
F.1
-Radio gear is restricted to standard two-channel radio control; sail control, and rudder[s].
F.2
-Rudder servo will control the rudder[s] alone.
F.3
-Sail control servo will control Sail alone.
F.4
-Batteries must be housed inside the hull.
G. [Appendages]
G.1
-Except for the rudder[s] the following are prohibited: moveable or retractable hull appendages.
G.2
The rudder[s] shall fit into the measurement box, but may be turned 90 degrees to do so.
G.3
-Materials shall not be of density higher than lead: 11300kg/m3.
Just a couple of suggestions: