M505 RULE CHANGE - Sail Configuration

Since the class is not really established, just a few of us building them. There is some interest in this class, not enough.

The problem maybe with one proposed rule that the hull have only one sail like the Laser sailboat.

One sail does not have the look appeal as a two sail (main & jib). Two sail looks more yachty. More attractive on the stand and in the water.

How many folks would like to see the rule be changed to one mast any sail configuration. Would you be more inclined to build or buy a M505 if the rule was changed?

I will add a poll at the M505 Yahoo user site today.

Barret S. what do you think? You came up with the orig. rules.


Well, my mast position problem was solved with the appearance of the McCormack rig. Anyway, being as I’m from Spain with zero chances of competing, I only used the new rules to encourage me to build a handier sized boat. So my opinion matters little.:wink:

copied from my response on the Yahoo! group:

'hmmmm… the original rule was designed to add a little extra thing a designer would have to work around… however. I see you point, and I whole-heartedly back you. good idea!

what does everybody else think?


so… what does everybody else think? i really don’t have a huge feeling either way… i think the class will fill an interesting niche either way, and if someone wants to use a mono-rig, there is nothing preventing them… we are just allowing “standard” rigs…


the rules have been changed. see the yahoo group for specifics:graduate:

For what it is worth Barrett I think you have just sold this classes heart and soul.
The very thing that made this class special and different has just been taken away and I think that you will regret it.
Best wishes for the class and its owners…I think you were in for a tremendous struggle to get it going before, but now I don’t see how it will suceed at all.

Sorry to sound so negative,its not my intention to be so negative.
I really think that your original idea was way better and had a chance for sucess if “marketed” correctly.

i would be interested to hear more of your thoughts brett… i kinda felt the same way changing the rules… pm me?


guys, i DO wonder if brett has a point… :confused:

i’d hate to see this calss become like all the others…:mad:

lets keep talking, befor we set this in stone.

Your original idea is “sound” with a little tweaking the rule could be a lot of fun to play with.
The una rig would be its obvious"point of difference" and would involve some clever thinking by would be designers.
Just because the class doesn’t look like every other sloop rigged class doesn’t mean it will fail,quite the opposite in fact,many of the worlds most popular full size boats only have one sail!!

While we are at it…I think the width of the “box” is to wide.The diagonal boat is an absolute shoe in under the current rule.

Stick to your guns Barrett…your first idea is the best IMHO

thank you for your thoughts brett.

M505 owners, i would like to reconsider our somewhat [in my opinion] hasty rule change. i move to return the rules to their original form.

can we get a disscusion going about this?:graduate:

Drafting and maintaining class rules is one of the most differcult things that one can do in this sport.
It requires a fairly deep understanding of sailboat racing,design etc etc.
Also one needs to be quite “devious” you must be able to think like the guy who want to “cheat” your rules.
You must be able to see into the crystal ball to see the future of your class in regards to where the rule will push the designs .
(In my mind I think I can see what a footy looks like 10 years from now)

The most differcult thing to accept though is that many will not agree with your decesions…some will critisize your judgment.But you have to do what you belive to be the best for the class/rule.
you must accept early on that you will actually really upset some people and that they will leave.You cannot possibly please everyone.But if you and the other people who have a stake in your classes future can agree on what is the best direction for your class then you have a decent shot at sucess.

You already know how I know these things.Being involved in the formation of the Footy class has had many positive and negative momments for me.
But if you can see what you are trying to acheive in your mind and you think a great deal about it then you can do great things.

The last thing to accept is that no class rule is even close to perfect,the perfect rule does not exist and most rules seem to have a finite life cycle.
Your rule will have flaws…so what so does just about every rule or law ever written

So think long and hard about your class…write the rules with what you see as the final evolution of the boat in your minds eye.Don’t sway from that path…most who critisize will not have thought as long and hard about the problems as you have…and if they have then get them on board to help the cause.

Finally…market the class.
get some boats sailing,provide designs for others to build.
Show what “your” class has to offer and then just maybe others will want to play.Get stuck in ,this is not an easy journey by any stretch.
Good luck ( I really do mean that)

all right. i have thought long and hard about this… if we don’t start a discussion, and figure this out as a class in the next day, i am going to make an executive decision to return to the original rules…:scared:

let see what happens!

single mast, single sail configuration.

I have two 505’s out of the mold now.