IOM desin

i am into desining IOMs and us 1 meter. and would like to get new and help full inforamtion. what is best a wide beam boat? and light boat? keepin the mast at stn 5 (50 % of the lenght of the boat)
the rocker panel is it that improtant?
long live the cup and cris dickson[:-banghead]

Cougar -

have you taken any time to look at the US1M hull drawings and thumbnails? While not all of them may be valid or competitieve in the IOM class, I have to believe that a few of the narrow, lightweight ones just have to be right up there in light air with an IOM. Of course, just based on my reading of race results and comments by owners of both classes of boats.

Might want to email Greg and get his take, as he, as a former Regional Director up in the North East has had the opportunity to see a variety of boats and possibly judge their performance. Another knowledgeable person for IOM (not sure about US1M) is Roy Langbored and possibly Steve Landeau out on the West Coast. Rob Davis, Class Secretary for IOM might be able to weigh in as well, but again, not sure of his experience with US1M - but he certainly would know/hear about comparison racing between the two and what performs better in which kind of wind and waves.

It is my feeling, that a lot of IOM guys are easier to contact at WindPower than this site. I may be wrong, but WindPower definitely has a large contingent of IOM racers.

Good luck.

dick this is true
there is more IOM sailors at windpower. but what i find is that IOM sailor have thier bias. i look at the top sailors and they buy the most expensive stuff? i believe that i can design a good IOM. and keep it cheap. so that other can get into the sport. i am not sure of the us 1 meters as i have only met one person who had another . cant find him now but dave bowes realy knew his stuff. i believe there are good piont in the us 1 meter design that can be brought over to the iom class. and the same thing back
greg is a nice guy. we have chatted on the forum alot. and would wlecome infromation. you all know me. i never same an idea is dumb unless it is unfounded. like putting a canting keel on a IOM.
you are knowledgeable and would welcome all. even lester is here. why is windpower better than this?
long live the cup and cris dickson

Didn’t mean to imply it was “better” - just different group of people and different class of boats for majority of discussion. More ideas - perhaps from those who don’t visit here too often.

Couldn’t help looking at a new fishing road the other day. Use the springy pole (well some of it) , put on a sleeved laser like sail, totally unstayed non IOM, and, I even thought I could use the eyelets for, say , a mast boom link. Question is, how would it sail if stuck in an IOM hull?

Nick Lindsley
Australia 0418 727-727
Intl +61+418-727.727

So Cougar, once you’ve got your own design IOM humming and holding it’s own at the pond, would you take the idea of a cheap “IOM for All” to the extreme and post full design and build instructions on the web? You could, for example, ask downloaders to click a licence acceptance to the effect that it can only be built by a not-for-profit, club or home builder (not that this would really protect a good design from being unscrupulously commercialised by someone else).

I dunno - it just seems to me that we’d see more home built IOMs if there were good designs freely or cheaply available. The growing success of the Triple Crown seems to be testament to this, and it seems a good home built Triple Crown is competitive in a club fleet - which is all many of us want. There are a few others out there, but it’s not like the US1M, which has a half dozen or so competitive (at least, I understand, at club level) designs in the public domain, together with excellent guidance on their construction. I appreciate that not everyone wants to build their own. But some of us enjoy it, and don’t really have a choice of classes sailed locally suitable for homebuilding.

Anyway I love the concept. Go for it.


the idea of triple crown is a great one. and anybody that wants my new IOM can have them. they will be avaliable for anybody. i am going to be using a computer as opposed to pencil and paper. i know my desin will not be a fast as a ts2 but it could be club level fast. and yes i will give them away. sailing for me has always been fun. and i have met good people. who have helped me. so i be pasing it on.
cougar long live the cup and cris dickson

The US1M Yahoo site recently had a discussion about using an IOM as a US1M. Since the IOM rules are quite strict with regards to materials that can be used, minimum weight, etc. and the US1M rules are quite open, it is better to try to use an IOM as a US1M since many US1Ms are not legal IOMs. The Triple Crown is probably a good one.

  • Will

Will Gorgen

This is somewhat re-visiting old ground, but there is “cheap” and there is “cheap”.

Fact is there are plans available for a number of IOMs. Triple Crown is an obvious choice, also Sails etc. has a number of plans available. Further, Jon Elmaleh here in the US is starting to make plans available for his latest boat. But, having plans available still doesn’t answer all the questions.

Fact is, compared to boats like a Victoria or some of the Victor boats or the Japanese mass produced kits, even a home built IOM won’t be what some people call “cheap”. A decent sailwinch costs around $75; a mast $25, sails around $100, hardware and fittings probably another $100, a pre-built carbon fiber keel and lead, another $100.

Now somebody might say, well wait a minute, I can make sails and fittings and fins myself as well as building a boat. Won’t that really lower the costs? Well, yes and no.

Unfortunately, if you make the hull, the sails and all the parts yourself and you buy an inexpensive (read slow and underpowered)sailwinch you will save a lot of money. However, the question becomes is how off the pace will your complete home built boat be? The likely result, even in club racing is that you will be at the back of the pack frustrated by your lack of boat speed. The hull will be a little heavy, the sails not quite cut right, the fin not as stiff, the hardware not as friction free. Add it all up and you are off the pace. If you think about it, this result shouldn’t even be a surprise, how many big boat companies can build competitive sails, hulls, fittings all under one roof?)

All of this isn’t to say that you can’t build an IOM hull and save significant amounts of money. Building rather than buying can save hundreds of dollars. But, to really enjoy racing IOMs, the truth is you need to spend some money.

One point missed by Roy that I can attest to, is the amount of time required to actually “build” a boat. I am sure some have built and perfected a method to cut down on time, but for many it may be their first project where time was inserted in place of money (to some extent).

For those who think building is for everyone, just ask yourself a question - how long did it take and what was the level of frustration for your first, home built boat?

Forget being outside of the country and dealing with imports, tarrifs, etc. - just look at the guys who must order from all around the US to get materials. While building sounds easy, a quick look around shows that some are challenged in “assembly” of a plastic kit boat. I have numerous emails from guys who tried but messed up and they have a chewing gum epoxy finish because of an error. In some cases, they weren’t able to salvage their wood planked hull and had to scrap it because of a simple error. Many home builders have the time to build jigs and emulate the alignment of fins, rudder to keel center line like a production builder, but others don’t.

I guess I would offer a suggestion that like most other things, the line drawing for a model boat, whether free or available for a fee is only the beginning. Being able to create a 3D object from a flat piece of paper containing lines is another story altogether. And - back to Roy’s point,… once you have the 3D object, is it correct and fast, or did you miss something and it is slow.

That said, I do think we often tend to focus on championship race quality boats and overlook boats that would be perfectly suitable for local and maybe even regional competition. There really is a need for boats like Climate Products Mount Gay 30 that can be used for local competition. If one finds they are really that good of a sailor, they can always decide to purchase a championship caliber boat to compete at National and World level events. Maybe, like the Mistral design, there is something lurking out there that would be on-pace yet “economical”. And forget the cost (or lack of) for boat plans.

As I noted in a different post, if you are so cheap you won’t spend up to $25 for a set of plans, then how are you going to afford the rest of the parts, materials, gear, sails, rig, winches, etc.? The cost of good plans are only a very small percent of the total cost of the boat and not a place to be cheap (frugal, economical). And suppose you don’t spend the money - can that be said for the guy standing next to you at pond-side? Like it or not, you WILL wind up paying for performance. We talk about the US1M and know that class requires technology investments to stay fast. We talk about the IOM and the high cost to stay fast. Yet, it may not be fast, but why walk away from the Mistral as and if worried about the “cost of the arms race” - stay with the ODOM concept - where, yes, you can still spend a lot of money.

From my perspective, if you are looking for a good 1 Meter boat, there are so many out there, just pick one and convince others to do the same. Make it a requirement that it must be used… or if manufactured specify a 2 or 3 year old design. That will surly keep the costs down, but you will have a “local level of race boat” that others can afford as well. But beware - how long before John or Frank start replacing parts with new stuff that works better ?

Not a good easy answer I am afraid!

Great points Ray and Dick - very valid and, as noted, well covered before.

I don’t think either Cougar or I would be under any illusions that a completely home engineered boat will be competitive when it hits the water (although obviously I can’t speak for Cougar).

I guess my concept of “cheap” should be defined. Firstly, as you’ve pointed out, the other components of the boat, in particular the RC equipment, sail winch/arm and keel fin cannot be home manufactured to a competitive standard by most folk - myself included, and so I have no expectation of cost savings there. I for one would never invest hundreds of hours in building a hull (time is money), just to skimp on the other components.

I’m thinking about the hull only, which, for people like me, with experience in the materials, a few other projects under their belt, and a decent workshop, can build a hull that will hold it’s own.

The driver is not the money - heaven knowns I pour that into the hole made by my full-sized sailboat often enough - oh no - it’s the engineering challenge, and the pleasure of seeing your own work hit the water. It’s the Kiwi mentality that we can take on the big boys at half the price and still win. Call it stupid, naive, what you will. You’re right - but it’s just plain fun!

$25 dollars for a set of Bantock plans is great value - if building is your thing, and you are not designing your own, then you’d be silly not to go for plans at that price. It’s less than the cost of a tank of gas (even outside of California!)

There are those, who like me, have experience in working with the materials, a good workshop, and plenty of junk lying around for building jigs etc. If we’ve got the skills, then it’s great to have the option of building our own hulls. Like you, I’d never recommend this as a “first” project.

So “cheap” is certainly a relative term.

The beauty of it is that the rig, sails, RC gear, and if you’ve designed your keel box to a “standard” pattern - the appendages too - are all interchangable. So idiots like me can build two, three or even four hulls for the price of one good commericial hull. Acknowledged though, that we spend a lot of time in the workshop - but that’s what winter nights are for.


To return to the original question here for a moment. Cougar, design just isn’t as simple as questions like “wide vs. narrow” or “rig at section five or section six”. Unfortunately, the process is a series of tradeoffs and compromises. For example, where the TS2 has world level performance at most windspeeds and is the archytype for “wide” IOMs, I have seen other “wide” boats that don’t go in any conditions. Same for “narrow” boats. Graham Bantock recently told someone that his boat’s performance has improved dramatically recently because of a new fin design. Jon Elmaleh’s latest boat got much faster when he moved the rig back an inch and the bulb forward. In the America’s Cup, teams have seen performance improvements based on the shape of the sides of the boats and overall hull stiffness.

Unfortunately, the only real answer is look at what you think is fast, try your own take on the concept and then start testing. One general notion to keep in mind is that designing to an “extreme” in any one factor (ultra wide, ultra skinny, ultra deep etc.) doesn’t lead to a good all around boat.

Roy made a really good suggestion that shouldn’t get hidden…

TEST against a known boat design as a benchmark. That will provide you with almost instant feedback of the design. Swap transmitters to factor out the skipper skills. If you haven’t done it with your current designs - how do you know they aren’t fast (or slow) compared to anotehr design? That would be the key… until they compete with another like size boat, they probably are the fastest on the pond.

Peter Birch recently changed his thinking and admitted he had been wrong about multihull weights. Racing within his club, they all seemed fast, until they sailed against a different boat in a different club, and found weight to be a significant issue. Peter was kind enough to post his findings and admitted to changing his view and design direction. Had they not sailed together with the other club, he could have continued with the old design.

In the end, trial testing against another boat will tell you how good the design really is. Cougar, for your location, run your IOM designs against Marko’s boat as his has a known performance level (home built too as I recall). Side by side on the water will instantly tell you if you are heading in the right (or wrong) direction. If you recall Greg Vasileff’s <u>“breakthru”</u> canting keel design in a post a while back… it probably would sail through the water but I question if it would be very fast! (A chunk of 2x4 wood with a sail and keel for the new readers … and done tongue-in-cheek)

added as an after-thought:
What if one of your current designs would prove equal to or faster than a TS-2? How would you ever know without a trial sail?

<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>The beauty of it is that the rig, sails, RC gear, and if you’ve designed your keel box to a “standard” pattern - the appendages too - are all interchangable. So idiots like me can build two, three or even four hulls for the price of one good commericial hull. Acknowledged though, that we spend a lot of time in the workshop - but that’s what winter nights are for.

<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>

Is there a “standard” size for keel trunk slots? If not is there a size one can make the slot that could be modified to fit all commercial fins? It would be nice to know that the hull I am building could be retro-fitted with a commercial fin. If my talents ever improved to that point-which I doubt.

Vancouver Island

Is an IOM faster than a US1M?

dick are you kidding me
marko can sail a peice of wood faster than me. give him a old IOm with a torn mainsail. and give my a ts2 and he will still find a way to beat me. he has done it before. And for all of you out there. he builds his IOM out of wood and his own desin, and he sails quite fast. some day I hope to be in his leugue. but right now . i am not.
but thanks for the compliment , me and marko equal i only wish
long live the cup and cris dickson

Newbe question here. What is a Triple Crown Boat?
Where does one get more infro? Thanks JK

jake you can get the drawing for triple crown off the net. it is a IOM boat that the britsh are building and now most of europe. talk to the alberta clipper in this website. that lier told me in may that he could not build one. but since then he downloaded the plans and build the hull. so JEFF . finsh the boat. you should do a search for the plan on the IOM website. i even thought about building it. and i design my own IOMs.
here is the site
good luck and if you need anyhelp just ask. there is me and jeff who will help
msn is the best
long live the cup and cris dickson


oops yeah I did say “I didn’t think I could build one.”“it looks to tough”

I had to remmber the story I heard of Winston Churchhill sitting in the yard with a blank canvas (guess he painted) Some one up and aske dhim what he was doing. Churchhill replied he was painting but could not get started. This fellow picked up a brush and some yellow paint. He then put a dot of paint on the canvas ans stated “there is a bumble bee now keep going” Churchhill then completed the painting.
Now I do not know if htis is a true story or not but the bases is sometimes we need a push to get going.
Just so everyone knows Cougar is very pushy
And what have I done… two US1M hulls and triple crown under construction. Was looking at the 3crown yesterday. And yeah it is planked and waiting for fiberglass. Unfortantly I have been working mostly on the US1Ms. And now the schooner is really talking to me to start building her. God the voices in my head.

the triple crown is a nice hull but I would have built her a little different. I see now areas I may have problems with. These are all stupid mistakes I made in building the hull not a design problem. Do to the hull not having been fiberglassed I can fix the problems easily.And plan on doing this shortly. Well in a while, after things straighten out here.

IMHO the US1M is better to build as there seems to be more information out there on home builts then on home built IOMs. But remember the one thing is what is been sailed in your area. if they are IOms then build the IOM if US1Ms then build a US1M.

Cougar is pushy but in the best of ways. He believes in the sport and really trys to promote it all the time. And I consider it a honor that I know him.

Cougar have you come up with a conclusion as to what hul design is better based on the original post. I would take it some have replied to you online . I would be interested to see what your results are.


Don asked

“Is there a “standard” size for keel trunk slots?”.

No such luck Don - what I meant was that, if you are building your own, you can build each different boat with a keelbox that fits the fin you are using. Having built boat number one, and wishing to move onto boat number two, assuming I have a good keel fin and wish to reuse it, I can build the keelbox on boat numnber two the same as boat number one.