love the pic bill, now not only do we have a good action shot, but i think we may also have a peice of fine art on our humble page!
waboats!
I think something is getting a little twisted somewhere. Much as I would love to see a fleet of 200 MYA Footys (=12" model yacht) sweeping across the line, the MYA Footy Register (which I run) contains none of these boats and we have no record of them being raced.
I am not denying the figure if 200 or the racing. What I am saying is that if anyone knows where they are or where it happens, could they let me know so that we can try to bring them within the fold!
Angus
I can only report what has been written to me. Maybe a marketing line who knows? I do know however that most of the plans for these yachts have been in situ for some years and they are mostly completed as a novelty by Scale Model Boats similar to me. Yachts are not my primary indulgence. Never will be. More of a fun pursuit that can be enjoyed on the pond and not over talked in Jury Rooms.
Even in my small part of the world the same things apply with image, regardless of the class. I’ve noticed a constant turnaround of approx 60% of new participants leaving in the first year and rarely see any after 2 years.
The Stalwarts will always be there but without encouragement understanding and assistance there will always be the high attrition rate. This is also an endemic phenomenon to Scale Boats. An idealistic change in attitude towards new members is what is needed, not out and out registrations or win at all costs. Competition is fine but it should never overtake the reason we all say we sail boats, fun and relaxation.
That’s why selling kits and plans do not transfer easily into registered boats. The FUN just ins’t there anymore. Need Boats on the Water…
People are not problems as some would think and yes when you nurture they grow just like a blossoming rose.
The footy is what it is, a small yacht trying to gain respectability. It is not some high end high class full on racing machine. Check the comments about how difficult it is to get good action photos and this would support my perception of the Footy as a racing machine. It can never compete with the larger boats as a recognised true racing machine given its size and performance restrictions. It needs to find its NICHE and grow from there.
If we go back to the roots of these designs i.e. 12" Boats you will notice that they were done by old blokes as a novelty for their wives, children and grandchildren. An honourable pursuit.
It will always be a novelty and when we come to grips with that the class can be grown.
Take it away from its NICHE before it has a chance to establish and the class hasn’t got a hope. As they say BABY STEPS.
Grow the class as a 12" Racing Yacht with everything inside the Box, NO Bowspits, No External Rudders, No Bumpkins, and Hull Length is mandatory at 12", no exceptions.
Without extensions beyond the 12" how does the Footy stack up on Performance? Can the newer boat designs handle their Sail Area without the extra Bowspits etc…? I doubt it.
Something else designed on the Longitudinal/Vertical or even other ridiculous axes will ultimately be OK within the Rules yet not quite within the Spirit. How many inches over the foot would that be?
Tighten Up the rules if you want to take the Image away from being a “CUTE” class of boat.
Then and Only then do you have a true racing class that can be compared.
John 
there is some pure racing footies in the works Mr. Waboats. i’m trying to cook something up. and i’m sure the other fellows now, after, and before me (Despois’ nice footy), are cooking up some serious racers as well. this class is in the r&d stages of it’s life. new, and old things are being tried, i would say almost weekly.
Nigel
No problems with what you are trying to say, albeit somewhat in a condescending tone.
I have a strong business development and marketing background and from what I can see within Hobby Pursuits the production of Kits & Models is merely a Cottage Industry where there is no real endeavour at Market Research.
Where is your market? The Hang Ten is but one example of a well intended business venture that went nowhere. How many more will go the same way. The footy class is no orphan when it comes to some people trying to exploit a gullible developing market place. Not saying you are trying to exploit the market and no doubting your product might be of some value, yet I haven’t seen nor heard of a Fleet Racing Calendar showing comparisons and evaluations between different designs. Internet racing is fine to engender some camaraderie but it is no substitution for real competition and exposure. Hence my comment Boats on the Water
Putting a Marketable Value on a reasonable boat will in itself be an issue for the market to determine if the product is worth the “RISK”. I say risk as currently there is no evidence to show what a comparable product is and what is a better design based on results. Notice I haven’t said Go Fast Pure Racing Footies or Racers.
I’m not short of a quid and would gladly pay for a competitive boat but all I can deduce is my boat is faster than yours. Why? Because your design hasn’t beaten mine.
What makes your boat better than the rest and what results have they achieved? I hope you are offering a full RTR Kit as it limits your market even more if you’re not.
How many Naive people will part with their money on an untried product? :rolleyes:
Image of the Class is what needs improving and Boats on the Water and Exposure is what is needed, not rhetoric and pomposity.
Read my initial post on the subject and you’ll see what I am driving at. 400 Boats constructed from a plan and from what Angus says not one registered.
An initial first though is Politics sends people away. Or is it Win at All Costs and my design is the best yours so why buy somebody elses Rubbish.
More Boats, More Exposure, Pleasure to deal with, Quality Product at the Right Price all result in a willingness of the market to purchase and enter an enjoyable pastime, i.e. Parting with the reddies.
Who gives a toss if it’s not the fastest boat on the pond if you’re having fun.
All credit To Scale Sailing (Graham) as the site surely demonstrates what can be achieved with a simple design marketed where it should be. Look at the Testimonials and you’ll understand. Has potential to grow and move forward. Might even increase the registrations in time.
Reputation and Respectability is everything so please address me as John as per my posting. Adressing me as “Mr. Waboats” was and is offensive and I believe intended to be so. One can only hope you are the exception to the rule and not an example of the Forum Community. As surely you have little in the way of marketing skills and might I suggest taking down your Bongs & Swordfish Photos as these are offensive to the greater community and shouldn’t be linked to any Footy Sailboat. Hmmmm…:mad:
Image of the Class would in my estimation be deteriorated if it cannot accept its failings & limitations. It needs to market itself in such way so as to move forward with a reasonable business and strategic plan in place to do so.
Shoot for Mars and you’ll never leave the Launch Pad if you haven’t got a plan in place. 
John. :graduate:
Going back two posts.
Yes: registration of production boats is self-evidently a problem. They go out of the toy shop/through the internet stire and are lost in a kind of diaspora. Of course many of them are casual purchases/unwanted gifts etc. but, as you say, the attrition rates are ro high that we need to lay our hands on as many of them as we can if we are to have anything left.
Yes, we have to sell what the punter wants (including things that he has not quite yet realised he wants). I’m not sure quite how long you’ve been lurking for, but there is vaguely in progress a system for world-wide rankings and leagues with the idea of bringing small physical fleets together into a wider community (see thread Future of the Footy Class at its inception). One reason why things are going slightly slowly is that, so far as I am concerned, the software should be able to manage egg-and-spoon races if that’s what the owners/members want (boiled, poached or fried).
As I’ve started out to say in another thread to which you have responded, I thnk that your misgivings on rules are ill-founded - so long as dispute is in good part and not habit forming. Six months ago there was a view that the rule was Perfect and Immutable andI made myself rather unpopular by suggesting that it was not. Time has shown that there are indeed a few rough edges (nothing fundamental so far as anyone is aware) and a much better understanding on the part of the technical committee of how the rule should be administered and interpreted.
Yes: Footys are funny little boats trying to achieve respectabilty. This will (hopefully) be achieved by novel means: it has to be. I do not think this is quite the same thing as being ‘a novelty’. My brother, for example, is as big a sailing fanatic as me and a very senior oil engineer. These days his carry-on baggage contains the lap-top and the Footy. If you can make than more han an eccenctricity, you are really selling novelty.
No: there is no market research, and no marketing budget (more exactly no budget). This means that the class has to weave, dodge and grab the main chance. The chances of failure are not inconsiderable (the balsa pyre to the demise of the Footy class!) but there isn’t much option and trying is fun. With your experience and background, any contribution would, I am sure, be welcomed by everyone.
Time for breakfast. Switch off rhetoric and pomposity!
USA skippers may have noticed that the Class Populations page on the AMYA site has been made “temporarily unavailable” until the numbers get corrected.
I’d like to thank Graham for getting involved. Though my attempts to correct things through channels may have paved the way, it seems pretty clear that his approach got more attention. There are some changes going on in the AMYA structure that I hope will amend some of these difficulties, but I now know who to recruit the next time I feel stonewalled! :devil3:
Thanks again, Graham.
Bill H
John,
please donot judge me, or this group, by thinking that i was making attacks at you. i was just stating what i’ve been up to in the lab.
i never meant to be condescending, or meant to insult your name. i did not know your name was john. i just went by the internet handle.
it’s hard to judge that without talking face to face. not being a writer, i can’t convay, (can’t spell either), my intended good-will through key board talk.
my little creation, when finished, will be offered in individual parts, sub kits, and full kits. my goal is to have a high-tech vessel; as well as to have it, due to the design of the parts, easy to construct. good for the builders, good for the newbies.
as for the online portfolio, it is just that. the pics are of creations i’v done for people in the last few months. they are posted so others can see some of the diversity of my skills. hopefully people looking to hire some one like me will say,“that nigel sure has done some interesting things with carbon, he might be the one i need to build my (insert)”. i did put a warning on the post, so that the ones that might be offended, would have been warned.
some might not like seeing carbon fiber used in such ways, and that’s their right. i don’t like seeing advanced composites used for mass killing, such as in military and defense, and that’s my right.
i don’t know about that hang ten, but if he is still watching the forums, still has the protos, and would like someone to produce the boat, for what ever reasons that he can’t… i’ll build them for ya.
i’m not trying to build an intangible rep. i’m trying to build a reputable boat.
the molds havn’t been finished yet!
when i get some product ready, some will be sent out, to be tested to see if the do indeed float. if they do work, people will take an interest, and i can start some business. if they don’t work, the feed back gathered form the few to R&D them, will be used to make them work.
again, i’m not only offering the shapes that come out of my head, but also the building skill that i have with composites.
Nigel
Hmmmm. am I handled as Mr. Waboats? Post was signed off. Perhaps you didn’t read it entirely to get the FULL INTENT… I think it is best to leave it at that.
Image is about the Perception of Others and NOT what we believe we are or should be seen as.
The Dye has been cast and we already have achieved an image whether we like it or not.
Understand that and we have a cahnce and a beginning towards changing the Image.
Improve the Perception others have of the Class and in doing so the style of boat, and I believe we are addressing what the Thread was intended to achieve in the first place.
Whether it be Flat-out Racing Machine or Simple Cruising Yacht (which will always win on Handicap, a La Sydney to Hobart) it still remains a Footy with an image of being a cutesy, novelty, distraction boat, call it what you may.
Hopefully we would all like to see the Footy gain some respect from fellow Model Yachties and other interesting people, whether they are involved in boats or not. I wouldn’t want to see the class as a bunch of squabblers over indulging what is best for “their” class even before OUR class can sustain a footing (no pun intended) in the accredited governing bodies.
If our image is seen as cutesy then let’s change it by showing what it means to stand together with a common goal. This Goal, I believe has to come from and be championed by the Executive, agreed to by those who passionately want the class to grow and establish itself.
Just my two cents from a Marketing Perspective…
John
:zbeer:
AMYA class populations are back up. 34 Footys listed. Much better.:zbeer:
Clear signs of growth.
Graham’s suggestion is now up on the Footy Registration page. It now lists class population size.
http://footy.rcsailing.net/register.php
Great work Charles and Bill.
The only downside is that the newest Footy skipper in my local club asked me if he could get number 50. This was after he found out I was sailing 33 and 41. I told him he could try. It seems that one is long gone. 
If this was the worst of our problems, we’re doing great.
The two purposes of this thread have been addressed successfully and I want to thank all of those who got involved to bring that about.
I would like to say that beyond that I do not think we have an image problem. The mix of racing boats, starter boats, semi-scale boats, RV convenient boats, etc. seems very healthy to me. Few classes can hope to cover that much ground. It seems that our next two tasks are to get boats on the water and grow a positive community here. We have at any time many more guest viewers here than active participants. It is worth remembering that they are here and that puts us all in the position of Footy ambassadors when we post.
Graham
Can anybody give me a hand, I need Mr. Richard Webb’s boatplan to build
my first footy. and what is “SWORDFISH Bowspit”?
My email is david_chan_1949@yahoo.com.sg
tks a lot
david
Tee hee, who is going to volunteer to explain this one??? And is it a Bowspit… or a Bowswallow??? :devil3:
David, Richard Webb’s webpage appears to be here, where he sells kits. Don’t know if he sells plans. I have a copy of Model Boat with Webb’s printed plan for a Footy if you want it.
I don’t think Richard sells plans. His 12" model yacht kit is very good for what it is, but it is definitely towards the ‘toy’ end of the scale. Don’t know whether that is what you want. Another problem is that the only way of paying him is by a UK cheque and from your e-mail you look to be in Singapore. If you want to buy a Richard Webb kit, I am sure that we can arrange some economical means of moving the money.
Alternatively you might like to consider the Razor or Bobabout plans (http://footy.rcsailing.net/plans.php).
Hope this helps