Footy race at the Wooden Boat show in Mystic

Footy Class General Discussion (Footy)
21

Guys, please let’s try to avoid nitpicking about this event. We’re not writing a new set of Footy rules here.

Gareth has kindly invited us to the Woodenboat show…that’s WOODENBOAT show…and he’s giving us a chance to show a lot of people what Footys can do in a nice venue at Mystic. Note that none of these posts thanked him for hosting a Footy event…they immediately targeted his entry rule.

This illustrates an issue that is broader than just this event, too…our class has come under criticism more than once as being loaded with nitpickers, and I’ve been told several times that people have turned away from Footys because of what they see on these forums. I’m sorry I’m getting preachy here, but this thread is a good case in point.

The forums are a place to freely share ideas, but I believe it would be healthy for each of us to think about how others will feel about what we say…before we say it.

To put it bluntly, if you were Gareth right now, how would you be feeling?

I think we should encourage events and sponsors like Gareth. It’s good for the growth of the class, and I’m concerned that all this will have the opposite effect. It seems to me that we are all capable of making a reasonable judgement based on Gareth’s guideline. Of course, we know more about the boats than Gareth does, so if you think there is a serious flaw in that guide it would be helpful for you to present practical suggestions.

Thanks guys…Bill H

That said, Gareth, I would suggest that Kittiwake relys on the foam core for ease of construction, rather than for flotation, and would also suggest they be allowed.

22

On a more practical note (having attended and sailed many WoodenBoat Shows at Mystic as part of the Vintage Group), where are you going to sail? For those who’ve never been there, it’s on a river which is very heavily trafficked during the show and which can have a significant current during ebb tide. I wouldn’t sail anything smaller than a Marblehead there, frankly. I’ve watched J boats have a hard time going upstream in light air.

If you can get out of the current it’s hard to find a place with any wind. The end with the dock and the repair shops, where we used to sail, is, I understand, still off limits because of the Charles Morgan restoration. The other end, behind the restaurant is OK but one of the guys who runs the water taxi is a first-class jerk and loves disrupting the model activities, plus during the show there’s likely to be a lot of RIB traffic on and off that dock from boats tied up in the river. The piers down by the main building, where they (at least used to) sail the model Lasers on normal weekends are terrific for foot traffic but again usually too busy during the show to use. Launch and retrieval at the Brilliant dock is difficult.

That being said, we gave many sailing demonstrations and let visitors sail fiberglass Marbleheads without anybody complaining. Frequency conflicts can also be a problem as we’ve had exhibitors show up with R/C demonstration models of their boats and just turn on their transmitters with no clue that there may be a conflict. Having one of those gadgets that shows what frequencies are in use is a very good idea.

I don’t mean to be discouraging, but it’s not like just showing up at an ordinary pond and running an event. Both the Seaport staff and the WoodenBoat folks are extremely busy and sorting out things like a chase boat not showing up can be a real hassle.

You probably already know all this, but if not, plan ahead, and study your tide tables :slight_smile:

Cheers,

Earl

23

As the person who started asking the “tough” questions right out of the gate, I’m sorry I got this thread going in the wrong direction.

All I was hoping to hear was:

You are correct. Rules will be announced later, but the intent is to see Footies made predominantly of wood. Rigs probably excluded from that.

Footies are great, and if you hold a regatta you’ll be amazed at how many show up to race. If remember correctly, two of the three largest regattas at our club last year were Footy regattas which drew skippers from about 5 states.

Heck, if CardboardBox magazine was having a regatta at Mystic, I’m sure there’d be a fleet of cardboard Footies on the starting line.

Thanks for the invitation!

24

Bill has spoken, Kittiwakes are in.

Thank you for the recent positive responses

25

I thought I’d pretty much stated that, I had not mentioned rigs, nor for that matter keels and rudders. Nor am I expecting wooden batteries, though I’m sure the more pedantic amongst you, could produce them.

I too hope this will be a great regatta, and I hope to have entrants who are new to R/C racing (as I am).

I’ll work my darndest to ensure clear water for the boats to sail. I think we can win over the Mystic launch drivers, the magazine, as far as I can tell is really committed to this, and Mystic museum is committed to having the show

26

I would very strongly recommend you review your plans with Jim Linville, who has run more events at Mystic than just about anybody.

Cheers,

Earl

27

Thanks Earl,

I haven’t sailed at Mystic, but heard enough about the traffic problem to give Gareth a heads-up on that. We’ll certainly talk to Jim…great suggestion. Maybe I can find a wooden Footy for him to sail…I think all of his are glass. I could probably find one for you, too, Earl. :wink:

Bill H

And thanks guys, for getting this thread turned around.

28

The amount of room necessary for a Footy course is pretty minimal. It’s not like sailing “big” model boats where sailing across the channel and in front of (and under) Sabino is a risk.

(Had to bring up the famous Greg V’s Orco vs Sabino incident again, didn’t I !?!)

Gareth, I can assure you this will be a blast. These boats always bring smiles!

29

Guys, I hope you understand that I’m a strong advocate for the Footy Class. Why else would I drive more that 3,000 miles to compete in the first nationals?

Gareth is to be commended for promoting the class. HOWEVER… I completely agree with Earl. Mystic is a great venue, but it’s not right for Footys. We sail J-Boats, Wheelers, EC12s, and Vintage Marbleheads at Mystic. One year we had US1Ms (the Greg V incident) and S1Ms. They were OK, but borderline. Don’t misunderstand me. I’ll be there if Bill will lend me a wooden Footy (or give me the plans for Cobra 3), but I won’t bring my #1 Footy(s).

Consider the following: Saltwater with currents and ebb tides (the channel buoys lean over at lease 30 degrees), and heavy big boat wakes. Not to mention the jelly fish that many boats were hanging up on last year. We will probably be stuck out on the North Lawn (by the Seaman’s Inne) where there is very little foot traffic.

Like I said, I’ll be there… but only for fun (which, I guess, is the idea).

Believe me, I won’t be bringing a boat I value.

Jim Linville
#42. 204, 208, 1202

30

Gareth & Jim,

I haven’t yet been to Mystic Seaport, but I do remember the Miami Boat Show several years ago set up a very large artificial, temporary pond for the purpose of displaying radio control boats (both power & sail) as a hobby, and I recall it being quite popular. It was in the part of the parking lot used as an outdoor display area, and was made much the same as an above ground pool, using a plastic liner and a low framework around the perimeter. It leaked a bit, but held enough water to serve its purpose for about 10 days. Perhaps something like this could be an option, though building it would represent an expense. Also, we frequently forget that Footys are only 12" long, and don’t required a large course like most other boats (especially J’s), so, perhaps a smaller course set up closer to shore would work out? On Google maps, there looks to be a tidal pond just south of the museum on Holmes. Would it be feasible to hold the event there, or is that in a restricted area (residential?), or just too far from the main site? It looks like it is connected to the river flow through a culvert under the road, so there may be currents near the culvert that would have to be dealt with.

Just some ideas that may or may not be any help…

Regards,
Bill Nielsen
Oakland Park, FL USA
Footy #835

31

You could even use a line with floats on it (like in a public pool) to rope off an area to keep the Footies from getting into trouble. You just can’t do much about the boat wakes, except maybe some floating signs that say '‘no wake area.’

32

I’m trying to find out when slack water is there. I imagine it’s very location specific. We’ve been offered support boats and I intend to use them to block other traffic.

There is foot traffic everywhere during the show, and we can publicise it as much as we want.

33

Ah, that’s just your cold talking Jim…

What about right off the dock where the J’s used to launch?

We’re only talking about a footy course for a fun afternoon of short course racing,
not an IOM/Star/Soling course for a Nationals!

(says the guy that hasn’t sunk one…yet.)

34

More fodder for the cannon.

I believe that the rule of thumb for calculating the hull speed of a displacement hull is 1.39 times the square root of its waterline. Therefore, if a Footy has a waterline of one foot, and if the square root of one is one, it seems to me that the hull speed of a Footy is somewhere in the range of 1.4 mph. If you check the current speed (tidal) of the Mystic River around Mystic Seaport you will see that (depending on the rise of the tide) the average water speed of the Mystic River flood is 1.6 knots (1.8 MPH) and the average speed of the ebb is 0.8 knots (0.9 MPH). To me that means there isn’t too much time for an average Footy to sail on the Mystic River. And… how much of that time will be during business hours.

For what its worth, I can remember sending chase boats out to rescue Soling One Meters that couldn’t sail against the current.

And… don’t forget that Mystic Seaport isn’t free. Yes, its free for skippers, but unless their spouses, children, relatives, and guests are Seaport Members they will have to pay $14 per day each to get in.

I’m sorry guys. Like I said before, this is a beautiful venue, but if you’re coming to have fun I’ll be willing to bet that you’ll have a lot more fun checking out the beautiful wooden boats than sailing your Footys.

I’d love to hold a Footy regatta, but lets find someplace practical to hold it.

Jim Linville
#42, 204, 208, 1202

35

I’m a friend of Gareth’s from the WBMag Forum. I’ve never had an R/C boat before and would like to try my hand with a Footy. Are there plans available for Richard Alford’s yellow multi-chine model shown here?

http://footy.rcsailing.net/

One of you also raised a question about there being too much wake at Mystic. Can Footys handle a motor boat’s wake? Are we talking about regular swampings/sinkings for even a well-built boat??

Thank you!

36

Sounds like an event with great potential… both for fun, and for a bit of headache…

BD, in response to your question about Footy’s and seaworthiness: I’ve had Stiletto (a rather slender, pointy, and submarine-oriented footy by most standards) in a pool with two boys and a dog splashing around… its managed to stay afloat. That said, there have been several stories of boats more seaworthy than Stiletto going straight to the bottom… I guess its a bit of a crapshoot there.

As for the Mystic venue, I was there just this afternoon at the rowing exhibit… (bit of a disappointment really, there were no shells!) While it would, under ideal circumstances be a great location for a regatta, I too worry about current and breeze… Having sailed full size dinghies on the nearby Connecticut River, often times the 420s, Lasers, and even the occasional Etchells, will be making a nice way through the water, and yet moving backwards… There is simply a ton of current in this neck of the woods, and not a whole lot of reliable wind to counteract it… especially in the summer-time… Were we able to find an enclosed area, I would consider that a much better option.

If not, one idea, for both boat traffic and footy retention might be to stretch a floating line (similar to those used to contain oil spills) around the course, or at least as much of the course as possible… this would mean that if a footy were indeed to “lose its way”, it would be much more practicable to retrieve it before it wandered into more dangerous waters. Also, I’d like to see a launch driver decide to power through a nice nylon line and buoys!

To touch briefly on the “wood” clause, much as my personal fleet would prefer to be allowed to sail in all their plastic-y fiberglassness, I feel that it is the race sponsor (in this case gareth) to make the final call on what is or is not wooden… most of my boats have wooden decks, but are otherwise of composite construction, however, for most of the builders on this forum, banging together a simple wooden-hulled footy should not be a daunting task… as a matter of fact, it shouldn’t take more than a weekend! grins

I look forward to hearing more about this event as time moves toward the race date… If I can get to it I surely will!

37

Richard Alford’s footy shown on the webpage is a very nice looking little boat that was built from one piece of very thin plywood, which was shaped and held in place with tape and/or clamps, and then glued. Unfortunately, Mr. Alford has stated that the pattern for the hull was accidentally thrown out when he cleaned up the workbench. Apparently, making up the original pattern was difficult, and he has stated that he has no desire to try to recreate it for publication. At least one person on one of the groups has tried using cardboard and trial and error, to copy this design and they seemed to arrive at the same conclusion. If you should decide to give it a go, and are successful, please let us all know.

As for Footys sinking, it has happened. Because of their small size, and the fixed weight of the radio gear and batteries, plus the fact that builders tend to make the keel bulb as large as is absolutely possible to gain extra stiffness in a blow, most Footys operate at weights near the limit of their hull volume. Because of this, it doesn’t take much for a small leak to be a disaster. Some boats, such as Kittiwake, and K2 from Scale Sailing .com (mentioned earlier in this thread) use styrofoam cores in their construction, which doubles as positive flotation once the boat is finish, so they are virtually unsinkable. The secret to not sinking your Footy (as is the case with any boat) is to effectively keep the water out!

Regards,
Bill Nielsen
Oakland Park (Ft. Lauderdale), FL USA

38

Having spent most of my life sailing out of Holyhead (very much the land of the big tide as Gareth will agree) I would suggest that therec is ALWAYS an eddy somewhere. Tide dodging may be a new craft for most model yachtsmen - but it is great fun and sorts out the sheep from the goats.

Look on shallow water, in the bays close up against headlands (usually change sides of the headland when the tide turns) and I think that you will probably find somewhere that will fit the bill.

Remember that for Footys to be interstng for spectastors they have to be pretty close at hand and if you don’t have a zllion boats, courss can be small.

:graduate::graduate::zbeer:

39

The NOAA tidal current tables are available on the internet. Use the table for Fishers Island Sound, which shows currents at the Mystic River highway bridge and 2 other points on the river. On June 27, it shows slack tide at 2:13 PM. But as Angus has mentioned, there are probably small eddies swirling about.

I personally am reluctant to put my handiwork in salt water, despite its present state of complete watertightness.

40

Would there be any mileage in suggesting an artificial ‘on land’ pool as has been used successfully in England for an annual footy race. I forget where but I know someone here will know.

Graham