Footy Extreme Speed Challenge

I started a discussion on this topic in the “Footy Activity” thread and should not have, so here is my attempt to move that discussion to this new thread and allow the other one to be cleaned up. Having not done this before, I will try to move my discussion over here and delete them in the other thread. Hope this works. Sorry for any trouble caused.

If you replied to this discussion on the “Footy Activity” thread, would you kindly move that discussion here and delete comments over there. Thank You, Frank

Re: Footy activity??
Watching this 12’ skiff nationals video on my phone ( ) has me wondering what changes to Footy rules are needed to make a quantum jump in performance. Maybe a open rules Footy challenge for best time (video) to simply go 50 feet,

Any thoughts out there?

A little history - the nick name ffastffrank was given to me by Tom S. who taught me to sail on a Jolly boat with trapezee? which lead to watching a movie on 18 footers in Aus back in the 70’s. Then in 70’s on to iceboats, kite sailing on ice skates & home made skate boards, converted iceboat to land yachting on roads in our neighborhood and finally to wind surfing. No, it has nothing to do with chasing skirts.

Mudhenk27 post moved here by ffastffrank

I kind of like the idea, Frank…ablolutely no restrictions, other than hull length? What do you guys think? Sounds like fun to me, and a way that people all over the world could compete against each other!


Hi Bill

The video shows the secret lies in the movable ballast (crew) & large sail with lots of vertical lift to prevent diving. So at least another channel to control a movable weight. We should also allow a second radio if skipper wanted a crew (so to speak) to help control additional channel(s) possibly making it a team effort or a club vs. club or country effort.

Mudhenk27 post moved here by ffastffrank

Let’s try to redirect this a bit. I don’t want to see the thread turn into a rules debate.

John, you are correct that your idea would not be legal under the current rules.
Walt, there are no change proposals to worry about at the moment.
Botbldr, the current rules would allow a skiff like the video to be built, but it would not perform well because the ballast can’t be moved.

Now let’s get back to Frank’s original idea. He suggested a special event outside of the Footy rules to test the limits of our imaginations and building/sailing skills. 50 feet in a straight line with a 12 inch LOA hull. The boats are not intended to race in sanctioned events, unless they happen to conform to the current rules, and the boats, therfore, could not be registered. It’s just a unique event for unique boats…a Speed Challenge.

I think it sounds like fun. I’m going to try something outrageous…which may be outstanding or may sink like a stone. Frank, I’m in…even if it turns out to be just the two of us.

Well said Bill. Kind of like the cars that run at the salf flats out West, but we don’t get to run a jet engine & they can’t run in NASCAR.

I suggest we continue the box rule so we can use our current diaginal hulls. The video shows crew moving for ballast, so we might want to allow movable ballast above the deck to simulate crew. Like surfing & iceboating, the fastest point of sailing is a reach, so skipper is allowed to pick direction of course. Once we get the rules agreed upon, I could see if our webmaster at TWMYC will post them and the times and youtube links if we do videos.

My head is spinning with ideas and it will be interesting to see which ones will work. I am in Michigan now, so my best efforts may not start happening until November when we return to Tanglewood. I take your challenge for a beer or two.

Anyone want to join us?

This is starting to sound real fun… so yeah, count me in for a shot.

As to rules, KISS. How about just simply “must fit in a footy box…” and leave all else open?

I like the idea of a down and back 100 foot run a bit more than a simple 50 foot straight line run, but thats just me.


Hi Ted

Certainly worth looking at or do both. It would likely make it a 90 degrees to the wind course. Are you going to join in the fun.

Re: Footy activity?? - also posted on the “other topic”
Just an observation from a long time ago - circa 1999 - 2001 or so -

At that time a speed week/day/month was discussed at length with the then AMYA Open Class Secretary (Jose Torres) and it was agreed the Open Class seemed to be the place to develop and hold/sponsor such an event since it would be open across all classes of boats - both those registered and those with fewer than the recommended number for AMYA recognition. The reasoniong at the time was that those in the Open Class paid their normal AMYA dues - but there was no venue for anyone in the open fleet to race. It was agreed upon at the time, this would “seem” to be the opportunity for the Open Class to host and give back a national regatta for the Open Class memebrs as well as the recognized class members who might want to participate. All was going well, some dates and location in North East US were disucssed and we were on our way… until Jose left and no Open Class secretary since then was willing to take on the project as an AMYA event… so, here we are today.

Everyone speculates on which is the fastest boat - or which boat if removed from class rules could be the fastest. There would be two simultaneous events - one for “class legal” boats, and one for “build it and bring it” boats - and as I recall, within the propsed NOR, the unlimited class would still race based on size of perhaps 3-4 sizes (this before the Footy) - 36 inches and less; 1 meter and less; 50 inches and less; and over 50 inches. At the time, multihulls were actually making in-roads into the Open Class and speculation was whether an F48 vs. Marblehead vs. a 10 Rater and which would be faster? Same discussion in the 1 meter class - IOM vs. ODOM vs. US 1 Meter.

Perhaps it is time for the AMYA and it’s Open Class Secretary to take another look and give consideration for an “OPEN” race in an “OPEN” class.

hey, after all … it IS history !

YUP! I am in. I think this would be a good time to try an idea for the Balmain sliding keel.

Interesting theme!

Why not go for even faster than shown in the video: go for foils!
like in
a model

I don’t know if it canbe realised in Footy size, but, why not give it a try?
A foiled Footy, based on the Flying Moth might even fit in the Footy box. So, it would give an “official” Footy :wink:


If we reach reasonable speeds, displacement may not be the issue. I think the secret lies in a design that does nor submarine or tip over.

Make your design fit in the box & join us.

If anyone has the opportunity to post a 1 way and/or 2 way time using your current legal Footy, send them to me & I will work to get them posted. It will be interesting to collect baseline times & then see improvements in extreme designs built for speed.

My email address can be found at

Frank - are you talking a simple rule (12 inches long) hull - or are you also tacking on the variety of other rules that define a “class legal” footy?

Just curious.


Gee Wim, I was kinda hoping nobody would think of that, because it’s what I’m going to try!

It won’t be a class-legal Footy though, for two reasons:

  1. It will have a t-foil rudder, which will make the rudder more than 3mm thick.
  2. It will have moveable ballast.

The chance of getting a Footy foiler to work is probably slim to none, but I’ve always wanted to try it. Frank’s challenge is the incentive. Wish me luck!


Seems to me that you’d get maximum freedom of design with a 12" hull rule. Using the box could limit creativity with appendages…like foils :wink: But I’ll leave the decision to Frank, as it’s his challenge.


Bill …divorce the tfoil and the rudder… offset and cant the rig instead of the ballast — presto, you’re class legal … T

Does this mean Tmark is going to implement his concept?


good luck!

I have posted a T foil, but a V foil has a certain stability of its own. Leaning towards one side creates a greater lift, resulting in a more upright position.
I know, it needs to be wider than the box rule.


Wim, it seems the T foils are the most develooped, but I ran across this one a couple years ago that looked interesting. Stability is the challenge, I think, for a model foiler. I’m sure I’ll have to try some different approaches. Gotta figure out the movable ballast first, though, to simulate the crew.