Dingo progress

We now have the plug for Dingo, the first immersed transom, Mariner style Footy. Made by a rapid prototyping machine at the local college of further education.

I think the shape grows on you - but you can’t deny that she’s different!


What material is the plug machined from?
looks good.

It’s solid. Some sort of plastic powder deposited electrostatically, then infused with resin and layer cured. The blue is just softish paint used to gve the final finish (from the machne it’s literally a powder finish).

The hull looks good. I can’t wait for a sailing report.

Who’s that holding the hull? Is that your mug Angus?

Yes, unhappily - and that’s after I trimmed the beard. ID is Angusogre in places. Reason is now revealed!

angus, are you in need of composite tech to manufacture your hulls?
partnership agreements?

Nigel. People tell me I’ve been very rude to you. To be entirely honest, this is not entirely unintentional. You may not know about it, but if you sniff around the web (rc groups is a good place) you can find the story. A guy promoted a thing called Hang Ten which also looked like an Open 60 and produced tooling to vacuum form toolsto make it. He published pictures of the thing sailing on somebody’s swimming pool in Force Damn All - and then started taking people’s money.

No boats were ever delivered - I suspect because they then found that in Force 0.5 the thing fell over on its ear. I think that people all got their money back - but it seems to have been an uphill struggle.

Your open 60 Footy project is worryingly similar. You are trying to make a boat that it seems to be has to be lighter than is possible with a Footy in order to work, no matter how clever the composite engineering - the weight of the electrics makes this almost certain. I’m not saying that you are dishonest (and I’m far from sure the Hang Ten guy started out as anthing but a starry eyed enthusiast), but it is my fear that the Footy class can do lots of disappointed customers in rapid succession. This may help explain my hostility to your Open 60 type project up to now.

It may be, of course, that you are right and that an overweight OPen 60 lookalike will work. Nothing is impossible. I have been playing with the design of boats for long enough to know that anyone who says ‘this will’ or ‘this won’t’ without any letout is a fool.

The other point I have been trying to make is that carbon is not necessarily tha nswer to all things - not because it isn’t a beautiful material but because in these very small structures with tiny loadings, it is very difficult to get carbon cloth or anything else that is light enough to make sense. You might care to look at 16g/m2 carbon tissue. This is a few (you can almost see through it) carbon fibres laid at random. It is not efficient and the resin takeup is high but it actually produces structures that are quite adequate in terms of tensile strength from one or two layers (I guess you are using light cloth of around 100g/m2). The problem is that anything so thin (approx 0.2 mm per layer) has virtually no panel stiffness - so you have to use some sort of sandwich.

My rather sarcastic point about the rudder was that, given the carbon available, you can produce a structure that is vastly over the top in terms of strength, but when you look closely, one using more conventional modelling materials is actually lighter.

If you find model yachts fun, and Footys in particular, thern if you want some hull dsigns, I can provide some - as can various other people. For my own part, I do this for fun. If you want a design for high-tech construction, it is free - off-the shelf or custom. If you want to discuss anything along those lines, you can send me an email from this forum and we can talk.

i also do my craft for fun. my open footy may or may not work. if it works, i could go one with manufacturing them if not, back to the mantle. the main reason i began posting, is that i found a class, that was the same lenth as a sculpture i carved. you see, i’m currently out of work. ( i missed out on the swiss victory build, the hugo boss build, and it seams like i aint gettin nowhere with team ellen’s new whatever. waiting for news from aerospace gigs both here (can), and the us. in between big gigs, i do little gigs to get buy. i currently working on all types of plugs for many different markets. i think that this emerging class looks like a bit of business oppourtunity, so i’m chasing it. this also goes out to any designers interested. i don’t have to pursue my design (feels good when it’s your brain child out there), i can tool any creation and do my part in construction. i didn’t mean to come off like advanced composites solves everything. the main thing i’m pushing in my craftsmanship in composite building.
so if anyone out there has a really good product, and want’s to partnership up with a builder, to offer their product in compsite, i want to do business
(tiny bit of soliciting)
oh, and yes when i’m done some stuff, i still am going to send you some, not just to see if the design can work, but to show my quality in what i do

forgot to yap about tissue. the stuff, like matt, is only good for three things:

  1. holding a lot of resin-too keep something more moisture-proof.
  2. tidying up the corners and overlaps, of a hand-layed, wet-lay-up.
  3. stopping print=through of heavier lay-ups, behind the surface coats.
    it is no good for structual reinforcement, only cheap, quick, crap parts. (glass, carbon, arymid, ceramic, basalt, or whatever.
    the panel strength can only be obtained with undisturbed filaments, going the distance, or by the use of i-beam construction (cored panels)

matt, or in lite terms, tissue, is made up of broken filaments. they do overlap each other, but they are garbage for strength.

i just weighed the second rudder that was out of 2oz. glass cloth (not mat)
and the two halves (not yet seam-sanded and joined) weighed 1.5 grams.
i recon that when built, it should weigh about 2grams.(i’ll have to weigh it again when finished to confirm that estimate. this one was also resin-rich, about 60%. it’s just tests til i come up with the final lay-up scheduals.

pressed reply by accident.

the first thing i want to send you is some laid-up panels of varying thicknesses, so you can see if any apply to your creations. could you some how give me a mailing address?

curious about what has become of “dingo”…

Hmmm… (points wickedly to another of Angus’ postings)
Once again the Richardson yards are going to be churning out another half-finished Footy!


i c said the blind man to the deaf one…

Angus is ‘otherwise occupied’ at the moment… I am sure we all hope that he is back on his usual form soon… we miss you matey :zbeer:


Escaped from hospital. Eluded guard dogs, etc.

Position of the well known Richardson yards!

Original Armadillo abandoned because of poor manufacturing quality of 1st hull/plug. It sails OK but latrer designs should be a lot better so not worhe trying to reconstruct plug.

Graham Pugwash is building a carbon/depron Red Fox but is just a leetle slow at the moment due to pressure of Christmas orders.

Gary Spillane has been doing clever things with a vac forming machine and should have commercially produced Dingo hulls avalable shortly after Christmas - despite the tumblehome.

Because of Gary’s cleverality with the vac former, Fennec (essentially a Dingo without the tumblehome intended for vac forming) has been abandoned.

Gary is also playing about with a Red Fox with a single carbon skin and a vac formed build template. If this works it is the last word in easy build lightweight hulls (as opposed to take the hull moulding out of the box). He may also be offering this commercially.

There are two new, closely related designs looking for homes - Freedom (free sailing) and Prometheus (RC). Hydrodynamically both are less radical than Red Fox and Dingo but are pretty extreme in terms of dimensions - narrow beam and light displacement. This approach has been shown to work in free saling boats. Prometheus is an attempt to transfer these virtues to RC boats using very lightweight electrics and construction. If anyone wants to give either of them a go, contact me for a set of drawings.

hope your doin’ better angus!

I’m very intersted in construction of a very light displacement Footy. When you first came onto this sight, I thought you were a cowboy. It’s now very obvious that you are a highly skilled craftsman. I don’t think that sinle skin carbon is the way to go - for the minimum material weights you can get (or huge amounts of labour) you just end up with a bit too much weight and far too much strength. Use sandwich.

However, if you can give me a ring (I’m US Eastern time -5), I’ll ring you straight back. Target weight 195 g with electrics and 100 g of ballast! You want to make it, I want one boat as the design fee. Anything else is yours.

We got a problem Houston!

I wouldn’t bore you with this except that other people may fall into the same trap.

Dingo is fractionally (and I mean a very few millimetres) too big for the biggest sheet our ‘free’ vacuum former will take. We think that this can be overcome by improvng the finish of the plug and using a super hi-tech silicone lubricant so that the platic will stretch more readily - but it will be by a hair’s breadth if it works.