Canters - or gallopers?

I know that this has no obvious relevance to Footys (hmmmm:jester: BUT

Why have a heavy canting keeler whose effect is to INCREASE effective displacement rather than a canting master whose effect is to DECREASE it. Which goes faster - an Open 60 or a windsurfer?

Dunno. Just a though.

I don’t understand the question yet.

What is a canting master? ( from your windsurfer reference, I see that as “live balast” and not a canting keel)?

Please clarify the terms and restate the question


The reason a windsurfer is as fast as it is is that the rig is canted to windward and bodily lifts the boat out of the water. At the same time it lowers the cente of effort so that it actually needs less righting arm to keep it upright.

Canting keeler we just use the moving ballast to keep the boat upright(ish). Because such boats do usually sail at some angle ofheel, the rig has some downward force, therteby increasing the displacement. What a grotesque idea.

My math is way to rusty to try to figure that one, but it feels like the canting keel can increase righting moment, but I don’t see how it can increase ‘effecive’ displacement beyond its actual displacement.

To follow the windsurfer analogy, the wing generates lift , lifting the board, reduces ‘effective’ displacement.

So the analogy would be, does the fin of the canting keel generate a downward (negative lift) force to increase ’ effective displacement?

I’m assuming moving ballast in both cases. The difference is that in the one we keep the mast upright and cant the kel, in the other we keep the ‘keel’ upright and cant the mast. All evidence is hat the latter is dramatically faster.

just a thought, but i think it comes down to practicality… the loads on a windsurfer are low enough that a single person can hold it up with his weight, and some obsene muscle… or in my case, just drop the stupid sail in the water as soon as it pulls out of my fingers… but, i degress… on an open 60 on the other hand, the loads are incredibly high, and last a long time [around the world] in my mind higher loads+longer time+ weaker links= an obvious breakage… that said, there was i belive a project to build an open 50 into a sorta planing dinghy that had big wings, a canter, and a canting mast… but i never heard anything more about it… so who knows… bed now though, i just attended a weekend long “peace jam conference”, and now i am rather wasted… :scared::scared::scared::rolleyes:

I hope that was a typo for a Peach Jam Conference!:devil3:

Surely, if the righting moment is the same, the load to move the ballast is potentially the same - and, as I have said before, it is perfectly practical to move the ballast with some sort of sliding seat - which is no engineering problem at all. Same structure could probably be used to cant the mast.

I stilll think that the canting keel will go the way of the bendy boom, roller reefing and the venturi spinnaker - a ‘must’ this week, forgotten next.

Angus’ first comment was the most to-the-point, I believe. Whether you have a canting keel or mast, or sliding ballast, you also have all the gear to operate that feature (servo, aheeves, lines, batteries) and all that has a cost in weight and the resulting displacement. So before (or during) your thoughts to weigh the factors, compare all that extra weight to the advantage.

Unless, of course, you build it all of ‘Unobtanium,’ which is practically weightless with almost infinite strength. :stuck_out_tongue: Either that, or just figure out a new boat design or a way to do it without increasing the weight (much) in the first place.

As for the Open 60 versus windsurfer comparison, the windsurfer is a relatively lightweight planing design, and the Open 60 is a heavy displacement design. I think that would make all the difference.


Personally I prefer miraculum, which has the added advantage of a thought-controlled Young’s modulus.

no, i meant Peace Jam… but i agree with you on the topic of canting masts… i don’t know that - esspecially on footys - that the gain in preformance gained by use of said mast would be enough to warrant the weight of building a mechanism to make it work…:graduate::rolleyes::p:zbeer:


we get back to the original cannon about the Footy design- to keep it very simple and just have fun sailing.

for an open-type class, it seems a lot like a one-design class by just staying with the original intent on things. I still have yet to see a working cat Footy.


a cat eh…