The idear of this class is great but it needs some more boats on the water so it can become a full on development class, and not just a collection of interesting but unproved boats. Who at the moment offers plans/hulls so those who dont want to design and build from scratch have a starting point? I’ve got a set of moulds for the hulls of my boat getting dusty, can a section be set up on the website for hulls and other bits offered? Where else is the class advertised apart from this site? Can we increase awareness somehow?
My mail has been junked recently so it sounds about right! Should be ok now.
If its not blowing it sucks!
Matthew, I’ve got one boat “on” the water: the microMOTH . Another design is complete: the TX-1 a trimaran foiler
which is low priority now but the tooling is also complete-unless I decide to change the outside hulls down.So it wouldn’t take long to put one of these together.
I’m convinced the only way to get real speed with control in over 6mph of wind with this size multihull is by using foils. The loss of pitch stability due to scale effect is too great a loss to overcome thru hull design alone…
Doug Lord
microsail.com
monofoiler.com
High Technology Sailing/Racing
Dick;- Looks good, Looks a bit like a nacra F-18 with scoops. What kind of rig are you thinking of? Doug;- I havent yet sailled a foiler so i dont know, its not exactly acessable as yet either, you either need a lot of fiddling time on and off the water or enough money for a ready made boat.
If its not blowing it sucks!
I have actualy got a (unregistered) Mini40 kicking around, Its a heavy balsa job with a IOM no. 1 rig. Its a bit uncontrollable, I got the balance all wrong. I’m thinking of chopping it down to 1m to make it a MultiOne so i have somthing to race my other boat against! The other possibility is to make another pair of hulls from the mould I’ve got and knock together another boat that way, im not sure it would work though as they would be very light (the last boat’s were 260 gramms each!) and with the IOM rig it wouldn’t be too stable! Either that or i could have a go at a cat version of your design. How heavy did your main hull end up?
If its not blowing it sucks!
Sadly enough real world concerns keep keeping me from doing much class wise. What do you guys think would help develop the class? Soon I will have some details plans of my boat online. I have wondered if it would be worthwile to take the Victor Wildcat and try to turn it into a “performer”. Granted I don’t think it will ever be a superboat, but it is cheap and available.
Kristopher
Kristopher,
The idea of a Wildcat class is an interesting one. I have never sailed one, but I know a lot of people have complained about their lack of tacking performance. However, it might be a great low cost way for people to get into cat sailing… the hulls are easy to obtain and build, and again the cost is affordable which is a theme I’ve heard on this site before when it comes to reasons why people sometimes shy away from other classes.
Andy
[-crzwom] I agree with Dick(God help me) : these little multiONES are extremely difficult to sail in wind over 5. But I go even further: these boats should be sailed with foils! At a minimum a foil assist daggerboard in each outside hull and a rudder T-foil. That would reduce the incidence of pitchpole related capsizes and fully submerged altitude controlled foils would eliminate the problem in almost every case in “normal” pond sailing. In big waves forget it: only a large helium balloon would work then!
Seriously though- there is information on the design of foils& foil systems on the multiONE website and if you’re going to consider one you SHOULD use foils. I said this when we first started this class and I’ll keep on saying it. Foils are not as difficult as some people think and you can build your own for a LOT less money than you can buy them. Not only that: I will consult with anyone via e-mail to help them do this right -at no charge. This class can work–on foils-and it will; I’m going to work on the TX-1 as soon a I get out from behind the backlog I’m facing now…
Doug Lord
microsail.com
monofoiler.com
High Technology Sailing/Racing
The Wildcat has several problems, not the least of which is that it uses lead weights for stability. Weight on a multihull is ALWAYS a bad idea. Stock they simply do not sail well and make it difficult to sail at all. However, the modifications I made to mine (more beam and no lead) made a huge difference. I think there is a glimmer of hope for the design. If not, maybe we could convince Victor to market another multihull? The foils are very short, not doubt this is why windward performance is lacking. I don’t think it will ever be the fastest 1m on the water. I seriously doubt any of the Victor boats are the fastest of any class. They are still popular, because they are “close enough”.
A hull means nothing when its out of the water, what is the possibility of sticking some foils on the Wildcat?
Kristopher
I’ve not seen a wildcat so I dont know what it is (a link would be good if there is one) any ready made hulls would be real usefull in getting more boats on the water. As to stability I think the problems are solveable, its just a case of stop thinking beach cat and think ocean racer when it comes to design. Ive now built two cats around this length, The first one was pretty much like a beach cat, huge tall rig, hulls close together so in theory the windward one would pop out of the water. the problem was that the hull popped in next to nothing wind and a bit of instability on the helms front meant it went all the way. So next boat i went for two low aspect rigs and wide seperated hulls while keeping the whole thing light, like Team Philips (yes i know it fell to bits, but it wa bloody quick before it did!) also a few big foiler designs like the aussie spitfire are using a similar concept. The boat that came out is real stable, the pic’s of it in action were in 10-15 knot winds, no hydrofoils and no rudders either (though thats going to change, it tacks way to slow and gybings a no no).
If its not blowing it sucks!
A cat is not as suitable as a tri for using foils from a weight and overall beam standpoint especially in this class that allows a 48" beam.The wider beam unloads the foils reducing drag improving speed and results in a lower wind takeoff speed.The beam (on a foiler tri) has ZERO effect on tacking contrary to the popular myth…
Doug Lord
microsail.com
monofoiler.com
High Technology Sailing/Racing
Doug-
I think 48" beam is plenty big on a 39" boat. I know, I know, more is better…
From looking at the picture you can also see the jib is way too big, I wonder about scooting the mast forward a few inches and raking back…
http://www.victor-model.com/wildcat.html
Kristopher
No wonder its crap to windward, the rig needs binning! Better daggerboards are needed too desperately. not much bow volume either, no wonder the thing pitchpoles easily!
If its not blowing it sucks!
Ah Matt, you have let everyone know what side of the pond you are from! Binning the rig indeed. I think the daggerboards are the single biggest problem. I really don’t think more forward boyancy is the secret, but I think t-foil rudders would certainly help. I am a little confused why such a large jib is used, maybe its off one of the other boats?
The boat has 2 lead blocks about 1lb each that are placed halfway between the daggerboard and rudder. These are supposed to help the capsize problem. IMHO they make it worse. They did help in keeping the boat from capsizing. Its very narrow out of the box, mine was 24" wide, which was not really enough. Without ballast and with wide beams it sailed better.
Kristopher
Matthew, what is “binning” ? You mean the rig needs to be a squaretop WingTip Rig?! Right. So what the 'ell is binning?
Doug Lord
microsail.com
monofoiler.com
High Technology Sailing/Racing
I think he is refering to a garbage bin. Well to end any debate (okay I know nothing will ever end a debate on this board) I have just placed an order for a Wildcat. I will see what can/cannot be done with the boat. If all else fails there is always EBay!
Kristopher
Binning, to put in the rubbish, sorry garbage bin! Even if the rig and foils are no good the hull surely would be a good start point, would victor supply just the hulls?
If its not blowing it sucks!
When I ordered my boat I asked about the hulls. The response was that they did not like to sell hulls only to those that had not built the kit. George Dornis is worried someone with buy a hull, botch the construction, then blame the boat. If there was an organized online construction manual that showed proper construction he might sell just the hulls. I will take a bunch of pictures and such when I build mine so you can get an idea of the boat. Does anyone know what victor charges for a set of sails?
Kristopher
for somebody that does not much about mutlihulls the wildcat looks intrestings. what would one do to improve its performance?
cougar
Cougar-
The two biggest problems are the weight and the width. The boat is very narrow for its length. I seem to recall it is 18" and 32" long. In order to get enought righting moment they add lead to the hulls. This makes the boat sit low in the water and helps capsize the boat. Easiest thing to do is make another set of crossbeams and leave the lead out. Also the daggerboards are very low aspect ratio, which doesn’t make for great windward performance. Making some thinner/deeper boards will help a lot.
Kristopher