Apologies to Mr. Peter Birch

Other The Local Pub
1

<font color=“red”>Edit: I herewith make an official apology to Mr. Peter Birch, which sent me finally the requested money with Western Union this Thursday 21st April 2005, local time. I also state that making this whole “problem” public was just WRONG! as he (again) sent the money as requested. I also invite posting members to do so…I also shut down the webpage as I told Mr. Peter Birch yesterday soon after our “chat” on MSN, I am also canceling every legal actions I took and will!</font id=“red”>

-Wis

_/ if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it! _

http://www.geocities.jp/schocklm/index.htm

2

What a bummer…
[B)]
Still hope it turns out well…

3

ok people
i dont normaly go for this. but maybe poeple should check out wis site.

this is something everybody should know
cougar

long live the cup and cris dickson

4

I dont know what to say :frowning: Worst part is is that I had this terrrbile feeling of Deja-VU.

  • HJ

“Expertice is gained trough mistakes. However repeating
same mistake is not learning but stupidity.”

5

wis,
you got his i.p. address, you can trace him. if you paid him via credit card, let the card company hunt him down. this is the good thing about cards. if you dont get the goods, just tell the card company and they should do some action.
ed

6

Lemme guess the next step: This guy gets offended and says you are not getting the boat because you offended me etc. etc. You Post the hate mail you get from him and this time this guy decides its time to eat it and apologize. Too bad it usually goes the hard way.

The bottom line is that You have paid from a service and a product. You have agreed on delivery method and time. Failing to meet the agreement ( even if it doesnt exsist on one signed paper, the emails are as liable ) will lead to redress and ultimately to the cancellation of the deal. So this guys owns you 600AU$ + 100AU$ from the parts you bought for the boat you didnt receive.

  • HJ

“Expertice is gained trough mistakes. However repeating
same mistake is not learning but stupidity.”

7

http://www.rcyachts.net/results/Other/2005/tri/imagepages/main.htm

8

I would suggest strongly that you remove all of this from on here. You have made this look like I have done nothing but lied to you the whole way through this. I noticed that you decided to eliminate all the problems that I have had through this whole thing. TYPICAL.

I repeat myself and say that I suggest that you remove all this.

9

Wis

Damn this sucks !!!

I know from our talks that you were all geared up and excited about getting the boat.
(Worst then a child at Christmas time)

Peter Birch shame on you!!! I do have a few other comments but as this is a family site I will not say them.

It is unfortant that with the r/c sailing struggling in many areas that there are people out there that are with out “morals” and are more then willing to rip off a person.

Yes we all hit problems with home life and work (went there hell here for the last few months). Some dead lines were not met. Thank God my supervisor understood what was happening. But the job was completed and life moved on.

PETER maybe it is time to pull up your panties and do one the honourable thing.
return money to WIS

The worst part about this whole thing is I believe it has put another mark against the sport. And further confirmed to me that there are very few offers online I would go for.
As for removing the posting I say leave it up as a example of Buyer Beware.

Jeff
Alberta

10

Peter,

You really are a disgrace to yourself and everyone around you. If there is any justice in this world your local club and national governing body will ban you from competition permanently, so that you can?t tarnish their reputation with your dirty deeds.

-Dan

11

This is truly an unfortunate incident - and one that hurts the sport double, since we already had a lack of potential multihull builders out there to begin with. Now because of three instances <font color=“green”>with three builders </font id=“green”>in the past few years, it makes me re-think my position/response when a new owner-to-be asks a question about a potential source of supply.

Damage has been done to the hobby but hopefully it will be quickly resolved and brought to an agreeable conclusion.

<font color=“green”><u>EDIT:</u> Added</font id=“green”>

12

Sorry for the double psot:

This was sent to me from Ernst (Idealist), he asked me to put it…which I will, as I want to have everyones opinions…I didn’t say I agreed with him!

<font color=“green”>Dear Peter Birch! -

You know, that I am fully aware,
how much LOVE, EFFORT, TIME and
PRIDE of a craftsman you had to invest,
to get your new boat DONE! -

Without wanting to offend ANY of those persons, who are pointing with fingers at you now -
but NONE of them HAS ANY IDEA,
what you have been through to build a SINGLE,
tailormade Mini40 full carbon TRIMARAN! -

I am talking of about 160 to 200 hours of concentrated professional work! -

No one of this forum so far has acknowledged you at all for your achivements. -
Therefore I would like to communicate my TRIBUTE to you now! -

VERY WELL DONE!!!

But - Peter - please forgive them -
they don’t know, what they are talking about! -

They are only - and I don’t mean this as an invalidation - USERS, not BUILDERS! -

No one of them has been able or willing so far, to start the enterprise of building a modern 48inch long trimaran of carbon/epoxy, which is about as much work as THREE MARBLEHEAD-YACHTS!!!

YES, I also want to say, that you should RETRANSFER the money as fast as possible to wismerhell! -

But NOT with the idea in your mind, that you are “GUILTY” in any way of not having fulfilled your contract with WIS! -

NO, not by any means! -

But after all this work you did to get the boat to the water finally,
you also should be granted enough time to SAIL that boat now also -
and simply enjoy your own achievement for some time!!! -

I say this one more time:
RETRANSFER the money to wismerhell!!! -

At least contact him in private to get an agreement of how to retransfer the full amount - maybe 100 Dollars each month, to avoid any further legal steps! -

And then just SAIL your OWN boat,
untill you are satisfied!!! -
Then you still can rethink the idea of selling the boat to wismerhell -
which definitely is a pain for you now -
as it is YOUR BABY!!!

Dear WIS - you know me by now - please give PETER a chance, to HAVE his own win - and find an agreement with him, to get the problem solved peacefully! -
If you tell a person often enough, that he is a “criminal” - oh lord - one day he might AGREE - and BE a criminal from this point! -
So please don’t do this to Peter!
He doesn’t deserve that!

Best wishes, Ernst Zemann
</font id=“green”>

Now to respond to Ernst’s post:

I am still open to every single idea from Peter, I mailed him on several occasions, he didn’t reply!
I know he came and saw my post.

He has my emailS, my address and my phone number…and again I proposed on many occasions to clear this…he didn’t respond!

What else can I do?

-Wis

_/ if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it! _

http://www.geocities.jp/schocklm/index.htm

13

I think that you all need to get a life. As i have said on here before there were other personal problems surrounding the fact that the boat wasn’t finished on time. Sick children, work commitments and other family problems, not the least the passing of my father. I had to pay for the funeral expenses etc., but none of this has ever been mentioned. I asked Wis to give me two or three weeks to get the money back to him. He gave me a dead line which I was unable to meet.

The funds will be sent Thursday (Australia time) by Western Union.

Hopefully this will bring an end to this entire situation.

I have however copied and am keeping all items to do with this matter and have passed them on to a solicitor for there perusal.

I am seriously considering sueing all involved for defamation of character and slander.

I am pre warning all involved that I do have all contact details for all of you, and I have no problem with reporting this matter to the Australian Federal Police. This is a international offence, and things like this are taken very seriously locally.

I repeat remove all posts relating to this situation and I do expect an apology from all involved.

I repeat the money will be paid via Western Union Thursday 21 April 2005 (local time).

This whole situation has caused distress to my family and friends. Those that matter know what the position is that I hold and know the truth.

The boat that he was waiting for has the following:-

floats finished
main hull needs decking
sails finished (a + b)
masts and booms finished (a+ b)
rudder and centreboard finished

I stopped all work on this boat four weeks ago when my father was taken to hospital and haven’t touched it since.

The photo of me that has been posted is of the boat I finished three years ago, and have posted photos of myself.

It amazes me just what people will believe.

Peter

14

Dear Wis,
thank you very much for allowing me to have my own point of view! -
This is truly a democratic attitude! -

As you obviously understood,
it wasn’t my intention, to make YOU wrong - you definitely have the right, to get either your boat OR your money back! -

But I also see the desperate NEED,
to give PETER BIRCH a chance to be RIGHT too! -

It is of course HIS responsibility now,
to pick up one of the chances you give to him -
but it would definitely be contraproductive,
to curse him as a criminal! -

Conclusion:
We could change this into a
VERY GOOD DAY FOR THE MULTIHULL-SCENE,
if we dare to find out,
why all FOUR potential Multihull-Suppliers -

  • including me -
    FAILED SO FAR!!! -

If ONE fails - a pity, but who cares!
If TWO fail - strange!
If THREE fail - there’s something REALLY WRONG!
If all FOUR FAIL -…- a catastrophy!!!

Ernst Zemann - (me)

  • Doug Lord -
  • Ian Sammis -
  • and now also Peter Birch??? -

What the heck is going on here??? -

  • Are we all criminals? -
  • Too stupid? -
  • Just a bunch of unable cowards? -

Or is there something else going on behind closed doors, which deludes all of us???

To fail to find out the truth behind ALL those failures,
might extinguish the rc-multihull-scene completely and entirely!
Now I’m definitely neither paranoid, nor am I a friend of any conspiracy theories!
(Although I love the movie “Fletchers Visions” with Mel Gibson - grin!)

But I think you all can agree with me , if I say: “There is something going wrong!”
It’s going wrong since FIVE YEARS! -
It “happened” to FOUR boatbuilders! -
There is a system behind those failures! -

Quote:
“Things don’t go wrong by themselves!
They are MADE to GO WRONG!”

Now let us all find out, what the common denominator of all these failures could be! -

Quote:
“Good management simply consists of:
‘Caring, what is going on’!”

“Bad management therefore must consist of:
‘NOT caring, what is really going on’!”

Think about it!
Best wishes, Ernst Zemann

Professional shipwright - boatbuilder/-designer with 25 years of experience and a special interest in multhulls

15

Taking the money and deposit means business. Everyone has problems, some sadder than others. But problems doesn’t stop business as usual. So it is a matter of being professional.

Finish the job on schedule.

End of story.

NL

Nick Lindsley
Australia 0418 727-727
Intl +61+418-727.727

16

i am not sorry this was done. i lay up hulls for friends. and when i send them out. i give a date. if i take money. they get them by that date. as of right now. I have norwalk . and I am in the shop. coughing . my friends would understand why the hull would be late. but I would not. wis had to take this measure just to get his money back. makes me wonder
cougar

long live the cup and cris dickson