Anyone familiar with the Ghost Train plans

MultiHulls General Discussions (MultiHull/MultiOne)
1

I’m trying to make sense of the Ghost Train plans - i’m familiar with reading architecture and engineering drawings but i can’t figure out what all of the shadows/bulkheads are for - can someone with a set of plans explain to me what the shadows labeled 0a-9a and 0-10 are for?

Also, is there no plan view for the braces holding the outrigger floats? Is this shape up to the designer? One last thing - is the top left view actually an elevation with some elements drawn with some perspective to them and others not? (Same with the elevation of the floats with bulkheads drawn in at angles?) It seems to me that there is enough information in the bottom drawing which shows the section 3.5 and section 8 placement of the floats, their respective angle and the hull sections layered above one another.

Could someone provide final dimensions of their boat as well? (i.e. beam of the hulls specifically)

Sorry for all the confusion - i just want to make sure i’m understanding this all correctly.

2

I can understand your confusion. The drawing with the shadows labeled 6a etc. is the main hull drawn to full size. The drawing on the right has 2mm removed so you can build it plank on frame. This allows for 1/8 planking to be installed then sanded down to final size.

The boat is supposed to be 48" long when built. The drawing is full size so any plotter can print it to correct scale, but the units is in millimeters The max beam is around 98mm or 3.8 inches

I am currently re-drawing the float frames so I can get them laser cut and will probably do the same with the main hull.

Not sure what your question is with the perspective? All the drawing is in standard 3 sides orthographic.

Mitch

3

Mitch-

Thanks for the quick response and clarification. As for printing, i work at a print shop and dxf files can be opened in Adobe Illustrator - however not to scale… i took the plans and measuring the CL of the main hull was able to scale it up by about 339.xxxx% to get it within a few hundredths. I just wanted to recheck my math. I’m actually thinking of swapping out the main hull for a different shape so some testing/trial and error will be required to determine whether they will be compatible.

My question about the beams is this: from the top perspective (plan view) are the beams just straight or curved? i know in the front elevation view they are arched and i thought this was the case with both profiles.

So what sort of cost is involved in getting this laser cut? Also, can you comment on how you’re going to attack building/rigging it? This will be my first RC boat, so i’m trying to absorb as much as i can…

4

When looking down on the tri, the beams are straight. They are only bent from the the front view giving them the gull wing shape. Full scale tris the beams are bent on the top view, but this would be pretty hard to fabricate.

I too have considered what can be modified to keep the boat from nose diving, and I have finally decided to just built it as drawn. I might add some volume on the floats up forward as per Dick L. suggestion.

I originally was going to build foam plugs and fiberglass them, but now I am leading towards plank and frame with laser cut parts.

Laser cutting costs per laser cut time, and the Star45 frames cost $36 from Stevens Aeromodel so I’m guessing $75 for the three hulls. See the Star 45 build blog for using the laser cut frames and planking details at http://woodstar45.blogspot.com/. Of course the Star is hard chined and easy to plank. Also look at an IOM hull that is built with plank on frame at http://www.shermanyachts.com/informational/vanquish/

I have built both of these and now ready to try a tri. For your first build it might be best to build the Star first…

Best, Mitch

5

OK, I changed my mind and I am going to build a glass on foam Ghost Train with the hulls split and joined down the CL. Will use plastic tape as per Dick L or latex sheet as the mold release agent. Probably use 2,mm depron as the joint foam.

I have float and main hull frames available on PDF if anybody is interested. I have redrawn for simnplicity the general layout so it just shows the hull and frames with no detail of both float and main hull. I have also redrawn the front and aft arms. Any of these I can convert to pdf if needed.

Is there any interest to start a Ghost Train build thread? Bought the foam and I’m ready to start gluing and cutting.

Mitch

6

Are you making any adjustments to the plans or are you building true to the plans? If you’re making adjustments, i’d be interested in seeing those pdfs.

I too have started my build (which will have a two week break that started yesterday since we have out-of-town guests) :frowning: Below is text i posted elsewhere under the MultiONE forum (i’m not sure how to link to that post but if you search for it, the title of the thread is “Positioning of hulls” (in response to conversation with Dick Lemke)

[i]I’d like to produce a boat that looks something like the Brossard trimaran or the IDEC tri. I found some great pictures of the Brossard tri and there is a strong resemblance between it’s main hull and those of the one pictured under the 2 Meter Boats section of your photos. I was thinking of combining something like that with floats from one of the more commonly available plan boats - any specific recommendations?

Also i have one (more) question regarding building technique. It’s sort of a variation on how you did your MultiOne. I was thinking of doing the following: Cut out my hull cross sections from bulsa and glue them between blocks of foam (every 2" or 4" depending on the plans and final size.) Then roughly cut them down to profile with a hot wire cutter. The final sanding/faring would be done bringing the foam just down to the balsa bulkheads. Cutting out 2 sets would assure symmetrical hulls and would provide structural stability. (yes i also would have to align them fore to aft, likely with a dowel or something running down the center through a hole drilled in each bulkhead.) Would this add too much weight? Is there no reason to have that much structure? OR, OR is this an acceptable way to build?

I would then plan on glassing the whole thing.

Would it be valuable to cut out the centers of the foam and bulkheads (like the supports in plane wings) in order to lighten them some? If so i’d need to figure out another way to align them length-wise…[/i]

Thus far i’ve cut out the shadows from balsa and sanded them down to shape. I’ve also sharpened the end of a hollow metal rod so i can slide it through a block of foam and it cuts a perfectly smooth hole. I will then put a metal rod through the hole to align all of the shadows on each axis. After gluing it up, i’ll remove those two rods, then glass over it. (I realized that having lengthwise structural support would be nice, but not necessary and would create further issues when dealing with keel and rudder placement.) In my mind it seems to work out… we’ll see what the reality is.

7

It will be built to plans, with maybe some updating on the bow like IDEC. I’ll see when I get it carved…

Let me get your build method straight, you are going to leave the balsa shadows in and remove the foam after glassing? That will be tought to do. If the foam is stuck in, then yes remove as much foam as you can.

My hull will only be a FG shell with the occasional FG frame inserted at key load locations. Thinking of using graphite powder to add to the epoxy mix to give it a ghostly grey hue (carbon look) , in leue of paint.

8

Yeah, i used graphite powder when i redid the hulls on my “real” catamaran.

As for the foam, how much does the extra weight affect performance? Certainly a boat that is too light won’t have any momentum and will be tossed around too easily… what is too heavy?

9

I don’t know what is best on the weight. I know people use carbon to lighten it further. Hopefully Dick will chime in.

One thing about the foam is you have to have an open area from bow turning block to sail winch and from rudder servo to rudder post. The main hull will need to be pretty much hollow anyways.

10

Hi guys -

here at work, I have finally convinced two r/c sailing co-conspiritors/workers to (each) build a multi. I think having the 1 Meter in their own hands for some time on the water, and seeing the YouTube video of the Aussie Mini40 made them decide.

One is going to build (based on our last conversation) GHOST TRAIN, and the other is going to go with FREIGHT TRAIN - but with two cross beams instead of one. Will be a slow build/winter process for them, but when done, we should have (I hope) those two designs, plus my WATER RESIST and will hopefully be able to compare performance of all three. Meanwhile and Down Under, there is a multi expansion going on with guys buying and building. Good to hear.

Based on above posts …

  1. You can “melt” out the foam after FG cover using acetone - but I must warn you it is a gooey, sticky mess that has to be poured and scraped out. Also be careful - highly flamible - but can be done. Need access through each of your balsa bulkheads to let liquid and melted foam in and out.

  2. I’m now seeing total weights of 4-5 lbs where only a few years ago, the weight was in the 5-7 lb. range (Freight Train as example) and I think somewhere I read about a boat being down in the 3 lb. range for displacement - but can’t remember where I saw/heard that.

As for weight - there are two thoughts that are proposed during discussions - one is that weight allows for the momentum to carry through a tack - or “holes” in light air. The opposite is that light weight allows for instant (or quick) acceleration - especially downwind. I like that theory, as if a boat is too heavy, if it doesn’t accelerate over the water in a gust, the tendency to pitch-pole seems to be increased as the tall mast (lever) will move forward before the platform. Also a light boat tends to be able to steer “deeper” downwind, than a heavier boat who must reach closer to wind to keep up same comparative boat speed relative to bottom of pond. I guess I could discuss either and subscribe to either, but I like the lightweight boat for what it is - light weight. :wink: I have no clue as to what is “too” heavy ! :smiley:

Both my MultiONE and WATER RESIST are built with shaped foam covered by glass - but the glass is eventually removed from the foam “plug” so hull and floats are essentially hollow. I did add some internal support structure to the MultiONE, but as a prototype found I didnt really need it.

Finally, you may want to experiment in moving both the daggerbaord/keel and the mast location aft. Today’s modern beach cats have very little distance between boards and rudder, but a lot of forward hull which may improve hull stability downwind.

Just a few random thoughts. Great to hear that there may be two builds going on. Any chance you guys could at least add your location (state) to your profile in case we have others close by and interested in joining the multihull revolution?

ADDED: Ooops - I see you have Riverside IL included - sorry!

11

A link to this video possibly? :slight_smile:

As for my build, sounds like i may need to take another approach. Possibly i’ll use my cutout shadows to build the hulls in two halves as others have.

More thinking-time necessary.

EDIT: Found the videos on youtube - a simple search of “mini40 rc trimaran” will get you there :wink:
EDIT: Dick, in what City/State do you and your two friends reside? :smiley:

12

Does anyone have pictures and/or some build notes that illustrates how they went about their build? I am mostly interested in keel placement and how it’s attached; servo placement; mast placement and means of attaching; etc.

When mine begins to look like a boat, i’ll be posting pictures showing my progress… right now they’d just be pictures of templates :slight_smile:

13

We live in a triangle (sort of)

I’m in Hastings, Minnesota
Another is St. Paul Park, Minnesota
and third is in Prescott, Wisconsin

All are about a max of 10-12 miles apart and the general location is about 25 minutes southeast of St. Paul and 35 minutes southeast of Minneapolis. If looking on a map, the Mississippi and St. Croix rivers converge in Hastings.

Sorry about the link - I had it, but simply forgot to post it. Glad you found it. When ready, I can put you in touch with the owner/class promotion guy in Australia.

I will look around for photos of areas of interest. Here are a couple I had handy…

PHOTO 1: The electroncis (without arms) is simply a 1/8 inch thick piece of ply with glass on one side. Servo for winch and servo for rudder are mounted, with rudder servo is below winch level. The entire board “slides” into slots on a vertical piece of plywood and is held in place by a single screw into a square piece of pine epoxied to keel of hull (not shown in this photo). Winch rotates above deck. Use drum winch to keep lines below deck if not pleased with this look.

PHOTO #2: Bridle wire for side stays is simply fishing leader (stainless steel) fastended to a triangle metal piece that is screwed into wooden plugs on ends of carbon cross beams. Metal item is a picture/mirror hanger from local home center, and can rotate slightly to aling side shrouds to bridle wires.

PHOTO #3: Spine and board are in bow between hulls and vertical. I found the spine wasn’t necessary for strength oncebuilt. This boat is a prototype. Daggerboard trunk is identical to suggestions on US1M “Construction Hints” article on AMYA web page. Board is 1/4 ply, shaped and epoxied. Glass not requred as it doesn’t support any lead.

Do visit and down-load the construction hint/iips noted above from AMYA website. VERY useful for building and will answer a ton of questions. It’s free, PDF format. Print, 3 hole punch, place in binder and refer to it. INVALUABLE !

http://www.modelyacht.org/us1m/us1mcons.html

:zbeer:

14

Thanks Dick! The pictures you provided are great. I’ve already downloaded and read the construction guide cover-to-cover and also picked up a few magazines for more ideas. Any other pictures would be greatly appreciated!

15

hi guys, i am new to this forum as i have been using another…for those interested the mini40s on youtube from australia are in fact mine…its great to see that they have inspired others to build boats…we manufacture mini40 here in melbourne as we are trying to establish the class.we have a small fleet sailing in queensland,and in a months time we are heading up for the state titles,(unofficial nationals). the interest we have been getting so far is huge…on average we answer about 15-20 emails a day from people that are wanting to buy or even get help finding plans…we are even getting emails from people who already have boats that want to buy our wing mast with the track moulded into it…the amount of interest is also large from the states…we quoted last week to send a boat to washington…i look forward to many interesting conversations on this forum…
regards
andrew

16

hey guys, and hi dick,seems like a small world in this rc forum world…
the photos i attached before are a bit small so i have attached the same again,only larger