An Open Letter to the Forum

Other The Local Pub
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An Open Letter to the Forum

Man, the last week has been a real festival of personal attacks, mostly on me. Roy Langboard started TWO topics under the Pub specifically to ridicule me and the ideas I believe in.In the past I have fought fire with fire giving at least as good as I got.I’m not going to do that any more because I think it is a waste of time. There are two very good rc sailors Roy and Greg and one good full size multihull sailor Dick Lemke that seem to have made me their pet project-or should I say discrediting me and the technology I champion on this forum. Some of my “fight fire with fire” responses as well as detailed responses as to what I have accomplished etc.are located on page 1 & 2 of the “Moth on Foils” topic under “General Discussion” as is Dick Lemke’s excellent satire. My satire of the closed mindedness of some on this forum is located under “No Class” in the New Classes forum.
These guys are really good sailors but when it comes to understanding the technology filtering down from fullsize sailing they don’t appear to have a clue;the technology and discussion of it seems to be totally outside their reach. For instance, when is the last time you read any DETAILED technical post from Roy Greg or Dick? On anything? Their personal attacks and reactive(reactionary) posts are in the dozens but where are their posts suggesting the application of new technology to rc sailing–few and far between if any. Yet regardless of what I post they react-not technical discussion- but direct personal attacks! It is unfortunate and a real shame that such knowledgeable rc sailors would react in such an uninformed manner to posts regarding what MIGHT be possible in rc sailing. Again, look around-try to find any proactive,positive proposals from these guys about introducing new
technology…You can find dozens of direct personal attacks but not much of anything else. What a shame!

I have designed and built many different prototypes and custom produce two spinnaker models and one hydrofoil multihull. I have other boats under development(see page 2 of “Moths on Foils”)
My boats are Strict One Designs and as such are designed to be raced against each other in their respective classes. One of the boats was disparaged by one of the aforementioned group as having the spinnaker just as a “gimmick”. That from an individual who sailed the boat only once and never raced it against another spinnaker boat. You can’t win a race in either of the spinnaker boats I build without using the spinnaker-the sails are effective and one class has been raced over 5 years and the other over three almost every weekend refining rigs etc-the boats are the FIRST to bring an effective spinnaker system-beam reach to beam reach- to the rc sailing world. But because I know how much fun it is to race spinnaker boats I have made the information available on this forum and on my website so ANYONE can use my patented system at no cost whatsoever.
Simalarly, I have made detailed information available thru this forum on how any individual can build and sail a hydrofoil multihull.
These new technologies not only work but they work well and can be seen under sail and functioning on my website in addition to which there are over twenty of these boats ($57,000) dollar value-equivalent to 570 Solings!)
that have been sold in just three years. They are expensive custom built with impeccable workmanship.
I want to mention racing which is an integral part of the development of these technologies. Comments have been made regarding racing these boats against other AMYA Classes. They are designed as strict One Designs; they are conceived ,in the case of the spinnaker boats to bring the excitement and pure unadulterated thrill of spinnaker racing to the rc world for the firat time in history. They are not designed to be faster than any other boat-just to be extremely competitive,highly controlled one design classes… Racing of both spinnaker classes has occured weekly for years as mentioned above and the racing is close, fun and different than the racing in any other rc class of sailboat anywhere. As the designer I don’t care whether these boats are faster than ANY other boat or not: I care that they provide the ONLY available way for an rc sailor to race with a spinnaker in an evenly matched one design environment: thats the point! And thats what they do very well!
The same is true of the F3 which was built at 56" not to fit any existing class but simply to provide excellent one design hydrofoil racing. The first two F3’s were raced here intensively to make sure we had it right. That boat is still the ONLY rc hydrofoil available anywhere!
But just to make the point crystal clear: I know these boats are very expensive and out of reach for most modellers and thats why I have gone out of my way to provide the technical information necessarry for anyone to build a similar boat. I have done this for free and simply to encourage people who otherwise would not be able to afford this technology to give it a try.
New boats are coming after lengthy development periods includingg the F100CBTF and the X3 retractable hydrofoil-backed up by my PROVEN record of introducing new technology to the market in the form of the FIRST patented rc spinnaker system and the FIRST hydrofoil multihull.
Much is written on this forum regarding both upcoming boats.
The essence of this new technology is to EXPERIENCE it in a One Design race; sailing an individual boat while an exciting experience does no compare to the thrill of racing evenly matched one designs using a spinnaker or hydrofoils-nothing available now anywhere comes close to this experience since to race in these One Design Classes you have to learn new skills-skills you can’t learn anywhere else. The same will be true of the F100CBTF-new skills and challenges will be required learning in order to be competitive within the One Design Class(or the development class in the F100CBTF and X3 cases)
The two newest boats that I will build-the F100CBTF and the X3 hydrofoil Formula 48 are the FIRST boats built by by me to compete in development classes. Both will be eligible to compete in a stock (One Design) version or souped up for the competition of these new development classes. The new owners will,in essence, have the option of competing in just the One Design Class or also competing in the Development class.

This is my last comment for good(I hope) on the raging, unfair, inaccurate, mean and highly personal attacks that have been so much a part of this forum lately due to just three main individuals. I have referenced earlier answers I have given and anybody can e-mail me with a question at any time.
I will limit myself ,from now on ,to engaging in technical discussions of rc sailing-not wasting another second of my time responding to inuendo, half truths, lies and other forms of misrepresentation.
Sail Fast, Doug

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

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<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by lorsail

An Open Letter to the Forum

Much is written on this forum regarding both upcoming boats.
<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>

Thank you for your open letter to the forum. I know you don’t wish to reply, but since an accusation was made, allow me to defend myself. Will let Roy, Greg etc. do their own as well.

The above quote, taken directly from your open letter is the key, Doug. It appears to stand by itself. It is not “part of sentence”. It is not taken out of context. It is a fact - something that many of us have been critical about, but what you seem not to understand, read, relate to, or believe in. It is not innuendo or half/partial truths. And above all - it didn’t start out to be “Personal”. You - Doug Lord - are the one who made it personal. Do not try to blaim the rest of us for what we have asked you (repeatedly) for well over two years now, to end.

And in correction of your quote - it really wasn’t just about “these two boats”! Every time someone asked, pleaded with you or suggested you cut back on the repetitive posts - it was you who became arrogant and moved it to the next level as a “personal attack”.

It became a personal attack for asking questions. It became a personal attack for making statements or observations. It became a personal attack for asking for some decorum and ettiquette - all of which you shouldered aside. Considering the number of times <u>YOU</u> have repeated yourself, I am astonished that you failed to identify how many times “we” repeated ourselves - asking only that you moderate the NUMBER OF REPETITIVE times you post the same information. If asking you to tone down the rhetoric makes it a personal attack, I really feel sorry for you, your thin skin, and clearly understand why the animosity took place of what had been a friendship.

Perhaps it needs to stand on it’s own as a simple sentence? A sentence that even for you is easy to understand?
<center>**** IT ISN’T PERSONAL ! **** </center>
Hopefully you can understand the meaning of those three words?

As you recall - I tried to be a supporter of yours - even back on the WindPower site - and then, because I finally tired of the ongoing, never-ending “hype”, the arrogant way you treated those who simply asked the question … “When will we see these ideas on the water?” … to you it became a personal attack. For someone to make all these technology claims that you have made (which were presented to you in the form of your very own quotes) - and most unproven, if any questions come forward, why do they represent a “personal attack” on you? Perhaps they can’t be answered? Perhaps you don’t have a clue when you will demonstrate one/any of them? Perhaps it is embarrasing for you to admit you went overboard promoting ideas and classes you weren’t yet ready to introduce or make available to the public? Perhaps it is embarrasing to have a former supporter become a detractor? I don’t know - I don’t care, but I take it as a personal insult that anything I’ve said started out as a personal attack.

If it’s bullshit - it’s bullshit. If it’s a lie, it’s a lie. But let’s not confuse questions as a “personal attack”. I think if any of us wanted to mount a “personal attack” on Doug Lord, it would not be hard to do. I certainly don’t want to go that way - but if you feel you can discredit <u>me</u> by suggesting the questions I ask are personal attacks, you are very wrong.

You jepordize your ideas, your integrity, and probably your reputation - by trying to turn everything that is said - whether negative or not to your way of thinking - into a “personal attack”.

If I don’t like something, and it is my feelings, my opinions, or my observations - don’t twist my comments to appear to make it personal. You asked what I thought of the test sailed boats. I told you what I thought. If you didn’t want/couldn’t handle <u>MY</u> opinion, why the hell did you ask? But to say my answers were a personal attack? What is your reasoning? How do you discount the photos of the reasons I noted of “why” I didn’t like the foiler. Like you accuse us of doing - you have just demonstrated the same thing.

My comments were made relative to two boats. A mono-hull and a multihull. They were MY opinions on what I thought after sailing them - yet of the group of comments - you focus on one point and try to make it appear that it was a “personal attack”. Man - I was commenting on the boats - not YOU! - get a clue. Try not to put yourself as the focus point of the universe, the r/c sailing world - or even this forum. If we comment about an idea, a theory, a product (real or imaginary) for gosh sakes - quit trying to turn every negative view into a “personal attack on Doug Lord”. The past is littered with those who once were called your “friends”. Perhaps, take a look over your shoulder and ask yourself why so many fell by the wayside. Being introspective can really help, but keep in mind, even those who are not critical in front of you, may be critcal behind your back.

Good luck as you go forward, for you will really need it - buring bridges behind you allows no retreat or second thought.

And for those who blindly support Doug - keep in mind, at one time I was there. Disagree - or question him, and it will become a personal attack. Soon you too will understand my “experiences.”

Dick - a “former” friend

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/me bows out :slight_smile:

Good luck, all… :slight_smile:

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. Kenneth Graeme, Wind in the Willows.

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OK, OK… :slight_smile: My personal preference is lead-bellied scale boats, but if I had the chance I’d take a whack at a multihull boat…or maybe a foiled boat. Does it matter? As I’ve said in the past, anything that floats is fun. Dougie with his foils and Roy with his racing - doesn’t matter. If it goes where you want it to, it’s fun :slight_smile: Enjoy our hobby and let Doug market his foiled thingies and let Roy push racing…I’ll still be at the pond sailing.

Rob

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. Kenneth Graeme, Wind in the Willows.

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I’m not sure if what Doug wrote was supposed to be an apology or just another long promotional post coupled with more attacks.

It is not very mature to point fingers and say you started this, not me. For anyone who is interested, though, look at the dates of Doug’s very nasty “No Class” and “Half Truths, etc…” posts. For anyone who thinks Doug is some innocent victim, be aware that he has been banned from the other principal r/c sailing board for his conduct. And for those who don’t know who to trust, let me simply point out that Doug is a manufacturer trying to sell products, those of us who question his claims are not in the model boat business and have no vested financial interest in any technology or ideas.

It is also surprising that suddenly Doug claims that he now is manufacturing “one design” boats that are made to sail against each other. It is as if five years of repetiitive claims of higher technology and superior performance never happened. Anyone who has spent any time here should be aware that Doug has gone after most every existing racing class as antiquated and attacks those that question his claims as ignorant, “retrodudes” and worse.

The claim that Doug is also an innocent proponent of new ideas that is being attacked by a conspiracy of the narrow minded is simply absurd. The only technology Doug champions is his own. He is in fact a lone figure in Orlando Florida who doesn’t even own a computer. He is not in touch with the mainstream of r/c yacht design and building.

Finally, Doug’s claim that those who disagree with him do not understand technology is just plain wrong. I am neither a yacht designer nor builder, but I have been fortunate enough to be friends with many successful sailors and designers and builders both of small and large boats. I have spoken to many of them about the ideas being pushed by Doug and his building and construction methods. Uniformly, they have said that they are at best unproven and at worst unworkable. Let me be even more specific–as to CBTF, the critical issue for making this technololgy successful is balancing the boat, the size and placement of the foils and the ability of the system to respond to the micro wind shifts that model yacths race in. Doug has done none of this work, has posted noting on these issues. As to square top rigs, the real technology questions revolve around the extent of the areodynamic advantage of the planform at r/c model sizes of a square top rig and the problems of controlling sail twist. What is certainly true is that since Doug is not involved with the work being done by many of the currently active r/c sailmakers, his sails and rigs are no where near as well cut or designed as those of Rod Carr, Bob Sterne, Graham Bantock, Black Magic, Power, BG, etc. As to foils, the issue is always about drag versus lifting power. As pointed out by Dick Lemke, when a foiler doesn’t have enough wind to get out of the water, its drag is horrendous. So far t-foils in models (as well as winged keels and rudders) have shown no speed advantage and in light and variable conditions they have shown a decided disadvantage. And finally, the fundamental technology of making boats fast revolves around designing efficient hull shapes, Doug doesn’t have a history of designing fast boats, doesn’t own yacht design or VPP software nor even a real computer, his hull designs reflect this lack and are no where near the state of the art.

Bringing new ideas and technology into model boat racing will be acomplished by those who understand that success is taken one step at a time. Informed discussion about experimentation and development is exciting. But relentless posting to push proprietary ideas has the effect of driving out intelligent conversation and misleading the beginner and the uninformed. I look forward to the day Doug Lord has fast boats sailing in the real world, I equally look forward to the day that he discontinues his repetive promotional postings and his personal attacks.

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i would like to wiegh in here. first thing . doug you say you have made you spinaker system available to anybody who want it. i have not seen that. because i would like to have one. . it might be nice to see a spinaker on the IACC20 boat. i am not saying you did not offer it. i am just saying i have not seen it.
second to those that disagree with doug( i will not use the word attacks anymore because , that word is just too strong and easyly taken out of contex) i again say leave it alone. i used to build RC submarines, and it used to be fun. we would get out to the pond and show each other our boats. built using the wrong items.(balsa wood) we soon got around to fibrglass. now we all tried different method to make the boat go down. full speed and down plane. and some people went to a water pump. now is this wrong? no i dont think so. but now we have people in the sub club. that have gas boats. and beautiful working torpedoes. they would not even talk with us. we dont know anything., the reason i am telling this story is because i can see the same thing starting here. and I dont think it belong with a friendly community which i find sailing to be. if anyone thinks i am wrong , so be it. this is the way i think. i design my own boats and build my own. i dont now everything but would someday like to be considerd a good sailor
i am open to any ideas
cougar

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I edited out my post here. Still available if anyone even cares. I just figure that I’ll let Doug’s post stand-alone. I think it tells the story pretty well. The poor guy seems to have some serious issues. Besides, I think Dick and Roy said what needed to be said.

Good luck Doug. Look forward to seeing the new boats someday.

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Steve, thanks very much for the invitation! You say my “neck of the woods” but not where. Sorry,I don’t follow the IOM class so I have no idea where you are referring to. There might be up to three Spinnaker 50’s available if the event you describe was in Daytona,Orlando, Melbourne, Lady Lake, Mount Dora, Lakeland ,Kissimmee and maybe even St. Pete. Jacksonville or Miami would probably be out but I could run it by the guys and see. I personally won’t make it but two of the guys might be able to bring three Spinnaker 50’s.
Also, unless you come to where the guys are sailing two weeks is probably too short notice but as I said I’ll run it by the them when I know where and exactly when.
I can’t think of a greater opportunity for me as a manufacturer than to have some of my boats demonstrated to a great group of sailors such as yourself and Roy Langbord; the guys here would relish the opportunity if it can be arranged… Thanks for the consideration!
PS-exact dates would be helpfull
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

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hey doug
how about me?
dont i get some consideration here? i would like the information on the spinaker system:-)
please?
cougar

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Cougar, look under “RC Spinnakers” on page two under"Technology"; also look under the topic:“Spinnaker 50 Design Considerations”(same section) for detailed rc spinnaker related information and cross references to other information.
A quick summary: a spinnaker on a 50" boat will cost about $110 IF you have a sailmaker make one that knows how to make rc spinnakers; a famous model sailmaker once charged me $400 for an AC class spinnaker but only because he did not know how to make the sail properly. The winch must be a Guyatt 380HD and you will need around 9 Pekabe blocks(no other brand because on other blocks we have tested the downhaul gets caught between the sheave and side plates).On a 50 with a symetrical spinnaker the spinnaker trim servo is a Futaba 3003 modified to 180 degrees. An asymetric spinnaker will cost almost twice as much and to be effective at the deepest possible angle needs either a wagging pole or a retractable spinnaker pole about 20%(minimum) of the length of the boat. The symetrical is the best choice for keeping costs down.
You will have to have a 2.5" hole in the deck forward of the forestay leading to a sealed tube half the length of the spinnaker hoist + 2". The tube will probably need two drains on a 50 " model.The angle of the spinnaker from the pivot point on the very bow to the halyard intersection with the mast is critical to allow the spinnaker to LIFT; it is absolutely essential that the sail be designed to lift. When I did my IACC model America One I found that to get the 2.5" hole in the dek it had to be 65" long to keep the beam to length ratio as close to scale as possible. On the 50 beam is about 12" for that reason; you could make a narrow beam 50 with a spinnaker but you’d have to pull the sail down on deck like a racing dinghy. You could experiment with a 2" holeand tube but that could be expensive-you could just model the spin system w/o the boat. But I highly recommend sticking with what is known to work well.
You can post questions under either of the two topics I mentioned and I’ll respond the same day…

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

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IOM race is in Coral Springs, Florida the Ft. Lauderdale area, February 6,7 & 8. Steve Landau and a group are coming from California and there are people coming from New York, Connecticut, Texas, Idaho, Canada, Alabama, and even the Caribbean. In comparision the trip for a Florida resident would seem to be a piece of cake.

Just to set the record straight, Doug was informed of, and invited to, this race on this board at least a few months ago at which time he said he was not going to attend. He was also invited to this race last year and did not attend.

And not only would I pay the other half of his gas money to attend, since I own a digital camera, I would take and post pictures of whatever he brings.

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thanks doug
i will look there. and see if i can fit it into the IACC20 boat. it would be nice to see
you are not such a bad guy
cougar