OK ? for you guys who don?t want to invest a fortune in time or money building a 1.2 Meter (48 inch) multihull, here are a few photos of what some of the U.K. boys are doing with their 1 Meter monohulls ? sans lead! Seems the idea of a 1 Meter multihull has taken hold, and when exchanging keel with lead for simply a daggerboard, the performance has re-energized some in the monohull community to consider a multihull.
My guess is this could be similarly done with an IOM or with a US 1 Meter as examples, although similar suggestion to the guys ?down under? for use of old Marbleheads was dismissed.
Not sure I really like the float design, but my guess is that it will eventually work out where some design time is spent trying to improve design. For the meantime, as training wheels, they are working ?O.K.?.
This idea would provide an opportunity to take the rig and hull of a standard 1 Meter, add cross beams and floats, dump the lead and go sailing. I would think, that as they get into the swing of things, the center hull will gravitate toward a thinner hull design ? but time will tell. For now, they seem to be having fun following this approach ? and that is really what it is all about.
Dick,
Ok, so they’re probably not an optimal design, but the important thing is that they’re actually out there DOING IT!! And hopefully having fun in the process. It would be VERY interesting to know how these boats compared speedwise against their leadbelly sisterships.
Bill
Muzza - I will double check photos. I have them at work, and one was bit “washed out” for color. Will see if it has any detail, but my guess (using my magnificent powers of recall) is that it may look like a gaff rig, but perhaps is a formed mast, similar in idea to the Microsail rigs that have a curved top to them. If I can’t tell from photo, I will ask the sender to dig out more info for us …
Which leads me to answer Bill’s question…
The person sending me the photos is Anthony Wright - a long time multihull builder of both trimaran and catamaran Mini40 sized boats. He is currently setting up a multihull based website for Britain, and has indicated the 1 Meter class seems to be taking off - replacing the 1.2 Meter size boats. Still speculation, but probably ease of travel has something to do with it (size) and the available and inexpensive monohull boats that can be modified might be another reason for the interest. The one photo with the wake seems to indicate a decent speed - depending on wind strength, but the “norm” for multihulls - especially trimarans, seems to be toward more narrow main hulls. A closeup of the orange/black boat seems a bit wide to my “eye” - but as noted, if they aren’t pretty - what the heck - they are still out there sailing! And the rig and hull from an existing boat make up a major portion of the multihull experience. I hope to be able to find that darn, pesky leak in my MultiONE this spring, and see how well it sails against a local ODOM .
Once his web site is up and I have the URL, I will post so you can visit and post/read. Anthony is usually a great person to share ideas, but as a builder who spent 20 plus years developing his layup schedule, he does draw the line at telling other builders how to do layups to get such light weight in his boats. He has admitted to using glass and polyester resin - and his floats, while seemingly light weight support his 200 “stone” body when he stands on them. He dropped me some ccomplete boat weight figures which I will post, and he references proper engineering design for light weight - but strong hulls.
So you are trying to reactivate the MultiOneMeter-Idea?
Cool! - As soon as I see a picture of a new boat sailing on the water, I will join in also with my own new 1 Meter Trimaran - built of carbon/epoxy and less than 1.00 kg ready-to-sail-weight!
Anthony Wright - has been busy updating his home in anticipation of selling and relocating, so time is a factor. In the meantime… "Can you please forward my E address to anyone who wants it as: modelmultihullsuk@yahoo.com."
MultiONE’s never really died out. Several have been built here, and the new ideas seem to encourage folks to try using their “old” monohulls with some conversions. I do not necessarily promote this idea, but perhaps with the right conditions, they will see the effect of better stability and no lead translated into faster sailing speeds. That in turn may push them to consider a “purpose-built” multihull.
While I think it is great you are building to this size, I also recognize that based on your choice of materials, it is possible you may just have destroyed any thoughts of others going down this path. Most don’t want to get involved in an “arms” race (i.e. composites and carbon fiber) and if they know this is the ultimate configuration they may face, the ideas and the slight interest/movement may just have been killed. Especially considering the idea behind the class was to encourage first time builders/owners to consider a multihull, and allowing them (encouraging them ?) to use the rigs off their existing monohull boats - all in an effort to stall escalating costs. Now, if you are able to produce a ready-to-sail “kit” with a sail suit, but less radio gear for this design at a selling cost of $400-$600 (US) delivered, there might be interest. Otherwise, it is like you appeared at a knife fight carrying a gun - and who want to participate on that level?
Maybe I’m wrong - but cost “IS” a factor, and unlike arguments that low cost = low performance - one-design racing in bathtubs can be exciting! If in doubt, just talk to your local Optimist sailor. So back to the issue - how do we get people to consider entering into a small class with minimal numbers - if they feel they have to have a “carbon-go-fast” in order to be competitive? MicroSail seems to be an example where their foiler is neat, cool, exciting - (and any other adjectives) - but it is costly, and thus the limited number of owners. If there were 300 of them sailing around the US, my feeling is there would be more interest.
I invite you (once again) to develop a design and produce a boat for resale that most new owners could afford to buy and sail. Once the numbers of boats “on the water” are there, the expansion into exotic composites can always follow. If you are the only person on the block with a Ferrarri, don’t be disappointed if no oe else comes out to play!
I’ve always dreamed of R/C multi-hull but to be honest I keep having visions of dagger-boards pointing skyward, however I have always tried to think of creative solutions to what to do when they do point skyward. I tip my hat to anyone who actually goes out and makes an R/C muti-hull. If I make one I’m bringing my Kayak.
I never had any intentions to “kill” the idea of an affordable and relayable 1 Meter multihull - just like the possibility of having a FERRARI never stopped anybody from wanting a regular street car. -
From my point of view it is actually the other way round:
I want to know, what is POSSIBLE - i.e. where’s the current borderline.
I try to push the borderline a bit more away from me.
I build a prototype as good as possible and don’t care too much about the costs and building effort.
Knowing what IS possible, I can then determine, how a cheap and fast way of serial production and delivery can be executed, while I’m trying to keep performance and weight (strength, stiffness and so on) of the serial product as close to the expensive prototype as possible.
Due to the existing qualities of available carbonfibre cloths and the building procedures of multihull prototypes, this first boat will allways be stronger, than actually needed (!) -
So from my own observations it is THEN also possible, to build the same design with the same weight in cheaper fibreglass - and even with cheapest ABS for the hulls - without a stiffness problem for the serial product! -
The more boats/kits are ordered, the lower the price can be - as we have discussed before - and the only real ART here is the way, how these first set of models are distributed - and how they get promoted.
Cheap transportboxes of cardbord, transportcosts (especially from Europe to the USA and to ASIA) and the possibility to send them as parcels by regular mail are also very important factors, to keep the overall prize as low as possible. Applying these factors, 100.00 US-Dollars for box AND shipping can be realized, so 700.00 US-Dollars for the boat including rc-set and sailwinch should be possible then! -
An easy-to-remember BRAND-name should be found, to make this product well known within a short period of time - something like the “99er” - which I intend to use for my own trimaran-design! -
The first serial produced “99er” trimaran, followed by the “99er” catamaran can be sent to local distributors within two to three months, right after the first boat is tested by a well known american modelyacht-sailor - maybe you, Dick Lemke? -
A testreport for model magazines would be necessary - that’s all. -
Selfbuilding plans of the same boats (tri and cat) - using different building methods, like balsa stripplanking - can be sold for as low as 30.00 US-Dollars.
Just for all those model sailors, who want to spend more time and less money on building - while the very complete and illustrated building instructions will guarantee a competitive model in every case! -
Conclusion:
The first carbon/epoxy-trimaran prototype would just be the starting point to this whole enterprise, without discouraging anybody - but inspiring everyone to get their own copy on the water soon. -…-
I’m with Idealist on this one, I dont want/need another grp boat - generally multis are at the forefront of performance and tech. I am currently making a mould for a one metre cat, to be made in carbon.
Frankly I think the material cost of a multi is a red herring - the materials are cheap, its just that you have to do everything three times…
good points. Would be interesting to hear from others, as it seems today, the appearance and acceptance of “inexpensive plastic” in the newest classes being formed seem to contradict your thoughts for most new owners. Buy it this morning, sail it this afternoon seems (to me) to be taking over. Yes, homebuilt IOM’s 10R, and US1Meters are still happening, and there are “pockets” in the US that seem to have builders instead of buyers. (wish I lived closer to the US1Meter guys out east!)
It seems we have been successful, at least here in the US to get the idea out to folks, and I am planning on “kick-starting” the AMYA publication article “Up on One Hull” as a way to keep introducing more people to multihulls. Your fact that 3 instead of one is surely an issue. Foam covered in glass that is precut/shaped for a one meter is possible, free plans exist, so how come there isn’t a stronger interest? Idealist has provided similar free building plans - and I don’t recall those being accepted/built by many. I guess, I am just at the point where low cost options exist, as do expensive ones - but not sure how to change the lack of interest.
In the past, some AMYA members have suggested a group needs to agree, build and race - and then interest would take place, but it seems that one could have pre-built boats available (short kits, or ready to sail) and they still need buyers. How do we generate that interest - regardles of build or buy decisions?
ADDED: Sure would like to see 20 or so 1 Meter multihulls out there - at least we could point to them as a viable and interesting class !
if you don’t like FERRARI’s - that’s OK with me! -
Laborghinis, Maseratis - or Cobras, Corvettes and Ford Mustangs will just represent the same values of SPEED, ELEGANCE, POWER and FUNCTIONALITY as a FERRARI! -
I will leave this one up to you. As noted, it was a year ago - and since we couldn’t/wouldn’t agree to a specific one-design (hard to comply if everyone is building their own) perhaps you can explain, how one-design, while a good idea, is rather useless if no one person (or company) is making them in one location under controlled building techniques and conditions. I don’t care if they are vaccuum formed styrene - or carbon/kevlar … they all have to be made the same - IDENTICAL !
One design, by it’s very name implies that all boats are created identical. Home building cannot do that.
Maybe you will have a better chance of explaining to “Idealist” that if he were to just build 25 boats (ready to sail) but without radio gear, they could THEN be purchased and could THEN form the basis of a one-design class. BUT - (big but) - they have to be inexpensive, since most people won’t spend a lot of money to buy a boat that is untested. Once 25 of them are sailing, then the price can go up for future buyers, but until they are on the water, sailing … it really continues to be “mental masturbation” !
I’m not sure what part of this explanation makes it difficult to understand? Perhaps you will have better luck explaining it to him? :trouble:
