7 Day Probation

Hi,
There have been references to the ability, or otherwise, of model boat builders, to be able to construct an F3, or other Foiler.
Much is being made of the accuracy needed to make a successful model.
To get this subject into perspective, consider the requirements for a Model Glider, of of the F3B Class.
This is an international Class, with World Championships, Country and Regional events, very active and demanding for the contestants.

The models have to perform three Tasks in a Contest, Speed, Distance and Duration, all Tasks must be done with the same Model.
Ballast is allowed at the Pilots discretion.
The Models are mostly constructed from Carbon and have wing Spans of approx 3 Metres.
As can be expected the models are very expensive to produce and maintain.
Controls are, Rudder, Elevator, Ailerons, Flaps, Camber Changing Flaps, Air Brakes, some Functions may be mixed, to provide further controls.

The launching of these Gliders is by means of a very powerful electric winch, which puts immense forces onto the model, as the models arcs up into the air.
The towing speed is such, that the model zooms up for about 100 feet, after it leaves the tow line.
To hear the air shrieking as one of these models passes overhead is truly impressive.
Any part of one of these Models, which is not performing at 100%, can result in utter failure, no second chances with a Model 500 feet in the air and travelling in excess of 100 MPH.

I have seen many of these models which have been Home built, which, considering the accuracy required, is an amazing achievement.
Model boats by comparison, seem benign, almost sedate, even the speeding Cats, Tri’s and Foilers are not subjected to the enormous forces imposed on these Gliders and other flying models.
Possibly the worst things that can happen with a model boat is some thing does not work correctly, or it breaks, or even sinks, never the instant and complete destruction of a beloved Model and months of work, leaving aside the expense!.
The destruction aspect of Model Flying is why I now make model boats, modelling is now a lot less worrying and easier on the Wallet, even the most expensive boat models should still be around next year, not so with flying models, each time they leave your hand, could well be the last !.
With a boat that is performing very poorly, it can be usually be persuaded back to the bank, adjusted, sent back out to try again, with a flying model, you take it home in a bag!, or brush the bits together and light a fire!
John.

Got a PM today from … well, doesn’t really matter, but voiced concern about my reply to Rich Matt’s post.

First off, the reply posting was not “anti Rich Matt” - but based on his statement, it shows what most all of us WANT TO SEE - and that is multihull racing activity of ANY kind - good, bad, ugly, or pretty!

Rich indicated he would love to see a “batch” of F3’s racing, and as before, I am in total agreement with him … ME TOO ! It is just at this point in the game, the inability to purchase a boat that is inexpensive, as a kit is affecting ALL multihull racing - with foils or not!

I had sent an email to Rich explaing my views prior to this post, and feel it pretty much is factual - the F3’s are expensive, difficult to build, and have no large following. If we eliminate the few boats that have reported problems, and we eliminate Rich’s boat for his concerns about damage, then my point was there will be no F3 batches of boats racing. And since foils are expensive, difficult to build for a beginner, and aren’t available as an off-the-shelf option - that pretty much closes the windows on “foils” for multihulls - period !

And while Doug will want to come on here to reply to this post - and to that one the Hoj made, and to the one I overviewed … let’s face it - I and most of us could care less about what Doug has to say, explain, or offer as an excuse. What <u>WOULD</u> be of interest is to see a set of comments from Hoj and from the Minneapolis owner that indicate Doug actually took the first step - and a positive one, (not one of name calling) - to resolve the issues of these owners. I can only assume, Doug is aware of the problems being experienced by each owner and that he would do all possible to improve their perception of the product, as well as all of ours - by seeing they are satisfied. Of course, (in my opinion) Doug is not well known for his business accumen or his customer realtions. Therein lies the problem. There is a lack of boats. Only 4 were sold. 2 owners found problems and (as far as I know) to this date neither has had a satisfactory resolution. But in the meantime, Doug is here and about to tell us (not the actual owners) what the problem is/are. So Doug - to cut to the chase - the earlier post stands as my agreement with Rich, that we all would love to see multihulls racing - and you, my man, are the self proclaimed person that will allow it to happen - or not !

Please don’t come here to whine about being misunderstood or that facts are being twisted, or that no one returned your emails or calls in order to get their issues resolved. That seems to be your personal problem, and most of us could care less how (or “if”) you handle it! That is a business decison you have to make - but I also caution you that the longer this continues, the less faith any of us have in buying a product from you or accepting your theories or ideas, especially since you seem to have clearly demonstrated that 50% of the F3’s you sold have unhappy/dissatisfied owners!

And - as the self-proclaimed (once again) manufacturer of multihulls a few demos of these “wonder boats” would go a long way to supporting and promoting multihulls.

In closing, I, just like Rich Matt, am simply waiting for some kind of multihull to appear that has/offers wide, general interest - obviously the foilers didn’t - for what ever the reason. In the meantime, please don’t try to twist my earlier reply to be one of an anti-Rich Matt nature. It just ain’t so ! We both have the same dreams - of lots of r/c multihulls, flying across the flat azure blue waters, one or two whulls in the air and the skipper beaming from ear to ear. One or two with foils would also be quite acceptable.

There have only been four F3’s sold; two were the original test boats of which there are video and still pictures of them sailing on foils; the other two were kits to Hojnacki and Rich Matt.
No one having the ready to sail F3’s has contacted me in two years as best as I remember . Every issue involving unpackng and setting up was resolved with the “Miniapolis” boat as far as I know. There was an issue in setting up the Wing Tip rig where I e-mailed you ,Chris Traiser,Tony Johnson and -never received any reply to e-mails sent regarding that problem.
No problem can be solved unless I am made aware of it; you seem to know all about it yet in all this time you or Chris have not contacted me,or explained the problem in any way, shape or form.
The fact that the two ready to sail F3’s were in operational order when they left here is easy to verify on www.microsail.com where there are many pictures of both boats.(correction:only the red boat that went to Chris Traiser is shown now; but video and still shots of the white boat is available; the boat is in Washington state having been sold by the estate of its first owner)
The customer seems willing to talk to you but has not contacted me in regard to any problem since he had a problem when the boat was first delivered in reassembling the boat. That problem was corrected -I know for sure-because you and David Goebel sailed the same boat AFTER that problem was solved.
The other problem was one caused by switching the support for the wing tip end for end as far as I know but I never received an answer to any of my e-mails asking about the resolution of that problem-which was a simple customer misunderstanding.Iwas never contacted in any way by the customer regarding the Wing Tip problem-only by David Goebel and Lemke and was referred to Tony Johnson whom I e-mailed and heard back from-the problem having been resolved . Again, there are pictures and video of that boat sailing and we KNOW it worked well when it left here.I know that it was sailed succesfully after delivery as well…
I can do nothing to help anyone that does not contact me describing the problem. I have sold over 50 boats of all different kinds and the number one thing I pride myself in is customer service-there have only been two incidents involving customer problems in eight years and one of those has been resolved.
My e-mail and phone number are published and there is no reasonable explanation for not contacting me and then claiming there is a problem…

edt: correction
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

[:-banghead]maybe the problem(s) aren’t in your boats[:-captain]…[:-angel][:-angel]

ADLA[:-pirate]

Keep your friend close…but keep your ennemies even closer…to the one—>wanna live with me?

<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by lorsail

No problem can be solved unless I am made aware of it; you seem to know all about it <font color=“red”>yet in all this time you or Chris have not contacted me,or explained the problem in any way, shape or form</font id=“red”>.

The customer seems willing to talk to you <font color=“red”>but has not contacted me </font id=“red”>in regard to any problem since he had a problem when the boat was first delivered in reassembling the boat. <font color=“red”>That problem was corrected - I know for sure-because you and David Goebel sailed the same boat AFTER that problem was solved</font id=“red”>.

I pride myself in is customer service<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>
Doug -

As noted, preaching to me, or the rest of the forum does not and has not solved problems. It is your customers that you need to talk to… after all, I don’t own your boat - I don’t have my money invested in it, and can only pass on what I hear - be it truth or rumors. Hard for me to tell!

I have highlighted your quotes in <font color=“red”>red</font id=“red”> (above) which you may want to consider editing or changing what you wrote - as they are incorrect, and possibly you have forgotten. If necessary, I can offer proof with photos, email, and verification that the photos were taken the weekend several of us tried to properly rig, adjust and sail the F3!

Immediately after that “Minnesota Weekend” you were provided photos of the sail shape that couldn’t be resolved. You were also provided with information regarding instructions (or lack thereof) regarding the adjustment of wand depth. Those problems HAD NOT been corrected BEFORE we sailed the boat. Those problems were reported to you AFTER we sailed the boat! Yet you claim that you were never informed? Please reconsider your post in light of “FACTS” that are available.

Doesn’t it say something when owners are reluctant to voice opinions, displeasure or dissatisfaction with a product they purchased directly from YOU? Hmmmmm, I wonder why that is? Perhaps, you have already shown your level of customer service in your previous posts. Seems that maybe “It’s the customer’s fault!”

The wand depth question is covered in the manual; I also personally sent Tony Johnson a sketch and e-mail regarding that “problem”. The wands were adjusted for speed when the boat left here and were not diassembled for shipping. I was told that the wing tip problem had been resolved and have not been contacted by ANYONE regarding that problem since I responded to the emails that day pointing out that the probability was that the mast extension was likely to have been inserted upside down!
Again there are pictures on the website that show that the rig had no problem when it left here; I would then and would now answer any question regarding that but have already done so once!!! By the way, if the customer doesn’t want to talk to me and really wants the “problem” solved why hasn’t he contacted Rich Matt in all this time??? Rich has the exact same rig…
e-mail: lorsail@webtv.net
phone: 407-243-9541

Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing

I don’t know Doug - you might try an email to Hoj and ask him why he contacted you about boat problems and not Rich Matt! I also understand that having the same boat doesn’t guarantee having the same (size) rig ! Can that “rumor” be true as well?

And why would you contact Tony Johnson - it wasn’t his boat? Seems a bit odd - telling someone who doesn’t own the boat what/how to fix something. Perhaps instructions weren’t too clear? Needed a technical guru? Owner had problems with English language? I give up? Did you call Dave and tell him how to fix it? Did you call me and tell me how to fix it? And … here’s an easier question for less points … Did you ever call Chris (the owner) and tell him how to fix it?

Didn’t know Rich was representing MicroSail as factory authorized service and technical support. Must have missed that memo ! Sorry !