With the final test sailing done of our 1.8m design we’re looking at establishing it as a One Design Class.
I’m intereted what people think about an OD class vs more open rule.
The basic goals of our boat are to have a simple very fast boat suitable for open water.
There’s a thread going in the “America’s Cup Boats” section on our design (due to it being derieved from an AC boat).
Here’s a little video:
FYI - Top of your jib is back-winding your main shown by the curves in the 2nd and 3rd stripes from the bottom on the main.
Thanks for the tip, this photo was taken on the first sea trial roughly 5 minutes after leaving the dock. So, we were not fully set up.
Here’s a slightly different setup on day 2:
I believe this is a very cool design. My thoughts would be to use a simple box rule that included maximum top of mast/bottom of keel height, hull beam and length. Anything else goes. Something this large is likely to need carbon rigs so leave all that sort of stuff free. This leaves the option for those who want to, too design a boat that may suit their local conditions.
Once again cool concept though not sure about comfortably transporting one unless you have big van/utility etc.
Thanks for the reply Tony.
What I have in mind is something that allows freedom with the set-up & fit out of each boat but keeps things controlled enough to allow the boats to be simple & avoid any “arms races” leaving older boats uncompetitive.
We’ve developed masts for these boats in Carbon built over a mandrel with an internal boltrope groove, they would be part of the class spec.
Another area that is a little different from some classes is we’d like to have one mast for all conditions & vary the sail sizes to suit.
So far we have tested the design in 0-25 knots with 2 sail choices “A & B”, there will be a “C” set added.
Transport isn’t to bad, the boat will fit in a standard size station wagon no problem.
A little off the wind action.
Can be hard to gauge the size of these boats without reference. They stand nearly 11’ (3300mm) tall!
How do you compare with the 1.7?
For starters it’s a One Design not a box rule boat.
Our design is “bigger” pretty much all around and aimed more at open water sailing: Higher freeboard, more ballast (21 lbs bulb & fin)
A few more key points:
- NO A, B,C rigs. One rig for all conditions with ABC sails.
-Mast is built in house for the design by us & has an internal boltopre groove.
-Bulb & fin package designed by Phil Kaiko (ex America True & One World)
-Construction is all High Modulus Carbon, bagged, & Post Cured using Ampreg
-Number of channels will be limited to 3 in an effort to keep cost & complexity down. The prototype boat above is currently sailing as a 2 channel boat.
John fails to mention his years spent racing (mostly winning) aboard full sized yachts and watching very good designs made non competitive by “better mouse traps” time and again. Sure handicap systems like PHRF ( and half a dozen others) help; but they are often subjective and still favor designs based on changing conditions. Models this large represent a sizable outlay of time and cash. A fairly strict one design will allow for exciting racing without the risk of rapid obsolescence. I’m a tinkerer, always will be; so is John. I might build a new boat 3 time a year but that’s just not practical for most people at this level of commitment. One design really does encourage participation. Look at the “real” boats like the Laser, Sunfish, J24, Melges 24, Melges 32 and on and on…always the biggest classes at any regatta! And often the best post race parties!
I like the easy look it has…not too cluttered etc…are you selling them or just making a few to play with.
In terms of one design it could be very successful - I’ve always felt that OD gives far more exciting racing. I remember back in the '80s an incredibly successful OD in the UK was the Sigma 33 (and to a lesser degree larger variants) and if memory serves (not too well!) even sail replacement was strictly controlled - they used to be one of the largest classes at Cowes Week.
My only concern about establishing it as a new class, as others have alluded to, is the size. When one thinks of the Marblehead in its infancy, the original concept was that it would easily fit on the back seat of an average sized car. I would imagine that when the One Meter class first came about some of its popularity was probably down to size too. There may well be some who’ll try to shoot the idea down with arguments about the dilution of existing classes. My advice? Ignore them - with attitudes like that we wouldn’t have the One Meter etc.
Going back to its size, what do you think an ‘on the water’ cost would be? For many that could well be the deciding factor. In the meantime, goodluck & keep us posted.
I tend to agree with Row, still the dimensions are a breaking point under present economical circumstancies.
Transport is a real problem for most of people.
In any case with OD much but much less problems overall.
Good luck !
thats a carbon hull and hand laid mast? I’m curious about the cost of one also.
Hi Guys, thanks for the replies.
Ok, so where to start. How about transportation:
Believe it or not despite being a large boat it will fit in a car as small as a Chevy Cruize (we tested this a few weeks ago!). The mast is the biggest challenge at 93".
With that said a hatchback or small wagon is best. The keel is a very simple removal, one thumb screw & it out.
New Classes/ One Design:
We feel the OD aspect of the boat will be a key factor. While I love design arms races (having done an America’s Cup as a sail designer, I get it!) it just doesn’t seem like a good idea with the time and money spent on a boat this size. Having a very well made “dog” a year or 2 later would be a drag…
The entire build is Carbon: hull, deck, fins, booms & mast. The mast is made in house by us and is the only tube of it’s type for a model that we know of. 31X12mm with internal boltrope groove. Masts are vacum bagged and post cured as well using Ampreg 22.
The tricky one…We’ve built 4 of these boats so far for local sailors (US East Coast) they were all “kits”. A 2 channel kit boat can be out on the water with an RMG winch for around 3,500.00 US +or-. That would include one set of sails. the class rule wil limit RC gear to 3 channels
If you’d like more info please feel free to e-mail me at: firstname.lastname@example.org
We do plan on having a website soon with more info, just been to busy to get it up & running!
A quick update on our development with the 1.8. We took the boat out this weekend to line up with our local frostbite fleet in 15-25 knots of wind, the results were very interesting.
First of all we stayed dry!! Believe it or not the 1.8 was the same speed upwind as an Ideal 18 with better height. Downwind we managed to pass 2 Etchells (not models…)!
Sails used for the testing were “B & C” sizes.
Here’s a shot toward the end of the day as the wind dropped with “B” sails on.