The issue for classes like the Vic, Fairwind, ect where the class has no real relationship with the manufaturer is that if they decide to stop production, you are out of luck. That is a real risk that we face.
In the case of the Fairwind, the boat has been in rpoduction for well over 20 years now. The manufacturer - Kyosho - has freshened it (with new decal designs) 2 times now and it seems to be a good seller for them. Based on the quality of the hulls that we are getting these days, the injection molding tooling appears to be getting a little worn out. So, yes, we are at risk.
Of the thousands of Fairwinds that have been sold, only 150 or so are memebers of our AMYA class. So, yes, you are correct that most of the boats are sold as toys to guys that have no intention of ever racing them or even sailing them anywhere but their pool. But that is OK. The fact is that quite a few guys who never intended to race manage to find their way into a club and have become active members of our sport. I include myself in that category. My wife bought me my Fairwind as a christmas present a few years ago. She almost bought me an R/C helicopter instead. But since she knew I was a sailor and that I had not really had a chance to do much sailing since our kids came along, sho opted for the sailboat. For the first summer, that boat sat on my Mantle at my cabin and was sailed on that lake 10 times or so including one race against my brother in law around two mooring buoys.
2 years later, I am class sectretary, national champion, an AMYA member and consider Model Yacht racing to be a serious enough endeavor that I have plans to build boats to race in other established classes. No way any of that would have happened if my only way into the sport was with a scratch built boat or a $1000+ IOM.
The victoria class is now the 2nd or 3rd largest class in the AMYA and the turnout at their class regattas is very impressive. Sure, the boat kit costs less than $100 but that does not make it any less of a vehicle for some great competitive racing.
Have you considered asking the manufacturer to include an AMYA pamphlet in each box? I know Victor is doing so, also the CR914. Great way to get the word out there! It’s how I first sighned up for AMYA membership, when I got my CR-914.
The question shouldn’t be are there too many classes, but “Are there enough competitive races?” particularly on a national and regional basis. To qualify as an AMYA class you only need 20 boats–you don’t have to schedule races or have members in all the regions around the country. Accordingly, AMYA has more different classes than any other national r/c sailing authority throughout the world. Some of these official classes basically sail at only one local pond and barely hang on to the minimum qualification number year after year.
The good news about this system is that it allows a lot of people to come under the AMYA umbrella, the bad news is that it leads to fragementation. In England, for example, they only sail a few classes of boats. This means that there is a great deal of interaction between the various clubs with sailors travelling from venue to venue racing the same types of boats everywhere they go. In the US, the situation is the reverse. In some areas clubs can be within very short distances and never interact because Club A sails CR914s and Club B Victorias. The owner of a Traditional 36/600 who moves from New York to California will literally find no one racing his class.
Interestinly enough, some classes still florish in this environment. IOM races turn people away because of strong turn outs. ODOMs seem to be attracting bigger and bigger groups no matter where they race. So one answer is to just ignore things and let the marketplace take care of itself (the likely way things will turn out). Another is for AMYA to try to concerntrate resources on certain classes that seem to be national in scope without restricting the creation and operation of other classes. A third allternative would be to try to develop a system of multiclass regional races. Finally, there is the concept of limiting offical classes to only those that have a national following and that regularly hold races around the country and relegate everything else to an “open” class. Personally, I don’t know what the right answer is but I am concerned about fragmentation.
There isn’t any way in hell that any authority-Amya or whatever is going to mandate what boats can be raced in this country. We’re in a period of great diversity boats which is a good thing.
But if you’re concerned about fragmentation or too many classes there is always the American Way to fall back on. Instead of ideas relating to the throwing people out of classes they want to sail or any other heavy handed method maybe this would work: design and produce the Ultimate Boat. Do thorough market research get a bunch of sailors together and come up with a boat that looks so good, performs so well and costs so little that anybody and everybody that sees it wants one. Voila! You have a huge nationwide class racing in every corner of the land!
Problem solved…
I never said that the Vic and Fairwind weren’t competitive. They are just as competitive as any other fleet out there. They are an excellent thing for entry level guys since they are easy to build. There is always the risk that a manufacturer will stop making them. There are always new ones being introduced. How many boats as Kyosho had in the last 20 years? I’m surprised it has taken Fairwind so long to become a class relative to how long it took Victoria’s. New classes of these type boats will come and go as manufacturers dictate. This is probably true for most OD classes as there doesn’t seem to be any homebuilt OD’s out there.
I have asked the north american distributer for Kyosho to put pamphlets in the kit boxes talking about the AMYA status of the class. To the best of my knowledge, they have never done that. They didn’t come right out and say that they would not, but they also did not give me a good feeling that they were going to do it. I gave them a pamplet in a word file that they could print out. I have a feeling that they saw it as free advertising for the AMYA that did not benefit them. Shame really…
Roy,
Moving from New York to California is like moving moving from England to Greece. I doubt that in Europe you would see all of the same classes in all of the countries in between England and Greece. So I don’t think it is fair to compare our system to England and say they do it right and we do it wrong.
It is interesting to observe that the kit boat classes that have sprung up lately seem to have a more diverse base than the “old school” AMYA classes. The Victoria Class had 3 regional championship regattas and a national chapionship in 4 different states. The 36/600 had no regional championship and all but two of their class events were in Arizona. The fairwind in only our 2nd season had 3 regionals and a Nationals.
Some of the traditional classes seem to be quite healthy, but many of them would not meet your criteria of having having “a national following and regularly hold races around the country.” Should we throw those classes out of the AMYA? I don’t see what good that does. Should we force all those sailors to discard their perfectly fun boats in favor of some new boat in order to remain in the AMYA? If you do, then then those guys will probably go off and maintain their group on their own.
Each class offers something different to those that sail. Some classes are development classes. Others one design (and there are many flavors of one design). Some offer the modeller a chance to build from scratch. Others require no building skill. some boats are big and impressive while others are quite portable. Some boats perform well in weedy ponds while others focus on high performance. If we start throwing out classes, then we will loose some of those features. We will throw out an affordable boat in favor of a more expensive one. Or we will throw out a big boat in favor of a smaller one. Either way someone will loose out.
If the IOM races are turning people away as it is now imagine how many more people will be turned away if that is the only class. I don’t think the arguments in favor of limited classes outweight the choices we have today.
Will,
I think Roy could have used the continent of Europe instead of the UK and would have still been correct. The only reason we turn away racers in big races is because of radio frequency limitations and relative amount of sailing available over a given weekend if we doubled or tripled up. I would expect one thing or another to have to change to support the rapid growth of the class (ranking races or system might be a good way to qualify to race in a big one, I would like to see that happen on a class by class basis should the class see fit to accomodate growth.)
Doug, Doug, Doug…
We already have a slew of ultimate boats to choose from…M, IOM, US1M, Soling, ODOM>>>>>>>the list goes on, notice the biggest growing classes, ODOM, IOM, sportboats relatively affordable, good sailing and more or less competitive with some development in a few classes allowed>>>>>its what the people want nobody wants another good for nothing class
Kalamazoo: not yet, but I am working on it. I drive up to Grand Rapids for club sailing (R/C). We have discussed getting the A2 and GR clubs together for a regatta - perhaps next summer…
Now really i dont have a place to comment, I am not a member of the amya or a regular model racer, but this in my opinion shows exactly why new, modern classes are required; http://www.amya.org/size.html Barring the tri, laser and the scale-sail type boats, all the boats there are of a similar layout and apperance on and off the water . Also the only big differences in performace can be almost directly related to the boats relative size.
Now I am primarilily a dinghy racer. In the Uk we have 75 different classes that had over 20 boats at this years nationals. Allmost all of these boats are totaly different from on another, they range from an optimist to a tornado, a topper to an I-14. If you dont know these classes, stick the names in a google, find a pic or two and compare them. The range of different boats, skill level rquired and performance is what makes the sport great. R/C sailing, in contrast is pretty narrow in range. Also a handicap system for models is desperately needed, but thats another story…
Matthew: Dismissing virtualy every monohull class in the United States and suggesting that the only difference between performance of all these boats is due to “relative size” I think is perhaps just a tad dramatic and overstated. If you are lucky enough to get into the yacht design course you are applying for you might find out that appendage, rig, sail, and hull design are actually very important parts of the yacht design process and contribute to vast differences in performance. As to the “desperate need” for a model handicapping system, what do you base that opinon on? To the best of my knowledge there is no one calling for such a system in the UK or among active racers in the US?
Back on the actual topic of “too many classes”, at the very least I do think that more AMYA resourses, promotion and even financial support should be devoted to those classes that have support in multiple regions and that hold multiple regional races and national races with large turnouts. If that means that less support should be given to a class like the 36/600 because it is no longer national in scope so be it. A good example–US Sailing has hundreds of classes but it focusses a lot of its energy on Olympic sailing classes and doesn’t treat all classes equally.
Will Gorgen is a National Champion in the US and is calling for a handicap system.(right here in this section!) Dick Lemke is Class Secretary of the F48 Class and is calling for a handicap system…
Using the computer for scoring like Michael suggested under a different topic would make taking times a piece of cake but thats another story…
There are no Olympic Class model yachts and selecting a few existing classes for boosting by an organization representing all RC racing sailors wouldn’t be likely to succeed-nor should it. Diversity is a plus of the current system and permits the development of classes of boats in which the very way you sail the boat is different: different sails,different things to control–in some ways much more like modern full size boats. There are new experiences to be had: higher speeds, new kinds of sail handling that changes the character of a downwind leg, and new boats with finger tip control of their own stability. Whose to say these boats won’t take off and change the face of rc sailing as we know it. Under the current system new development is possible and some of this new development can provide sailing excitement that just isn’t available within the currently recognized classes. Some older classes that may not offer what people want may fade away–so be it–but let the people decide not the powers that be or a small circle of friends…
How about someone actually develop a canting keel mechanism and start selling it so people can build boats with canting keels. That way average builders who don’t have access to a machine shop and aren’t electronics experts could easily build a boat with canting keel. No amount of complaining about the current classes concerning what is and isn’t there is going to build a class if people aren’t able to build the boats. If someone were selling the parts or atleast plans how to make it from commonly available items it would go a long way to encouraging people to make boats.
Ryan,this subject is off topic but I’ll answer your question anyway. There are a number of posts on ths website that go into the considerations that are important in doing a canting keel boat. Further. I’ve stated in a number of places that I will help anyone interested for free.
But first you have to read up on the subject so you understand what is involved: like what kind of lateral resistance will you use. Its all here on this forum in detail. You can ask me any question regarding this subject and get a detailed answer and you can find the answers you need to begin already here. I can tell you how to make or have made your own mechanism and there are others available including Grunta(Ultimate Warrior-the first canting keel model and its in production NOW) and John Beavis that you can contact.
All the stuff you need is available now from this website or me–all anyone has to do is ask…
I’ve read every post on here regarding CBTF you’ve made in the last year. Never once have you described or posted a photo of your canting keel mechanism. Atleast someone else has. It was a very nice looking gear drive. If that piece of hardware was for sale and advertised a lot more people might be interested in building boats with it. Not everyone wants to buy a completed boat. A discussion regarding how to build this would be a lot more interesting then this never ending ongoing rant regarding lack of classes or inclusion in classes
i used to belong to a club ( i quit this year ) where sailing was a second class option. there was no reggatas no talk about new tecknowlegy. so i started my own club. and we sail all classes. this is not a bad thing. what is bad is the suppliers out there. one of the members looked around and found out that there was bore companies catering to scale boat and speed boats. i think we need more companines devolping more model for the average builder to use. like the victoria and the fairwind. once people get the feel of a sailboat they want one. and Iknow of a way people can get a us 1 meter in to thier hand for under $500. cdn , and that is inluding a brand new radio. lets just look at this as a positive. the more people sailing the more information can be passed along. I am willing to pass along any info i have. how about other people?